Announcing Schlongs of Elite v1.0

[diagoras]

Just kidding, wanted to grab your attention

But serious question, though - what is community opinion/policy on expansions of indecent nature? I have been browsing OXPs, planning what to do after changing my Mining Transporter for something better and noticed that darkest aspect of Ooniverse is embarrassingly underdeveloped. I'm talking about slave trading, of course. Measuring slaves in metric tons is not right both for moral and practical reasons. Slaves are people (or not people) with different names, personalities, looks, abilities, sad background stories etc. Their... err... "consumers" are different too - be it perverted feudal, aiming to spice up his harem with some exotic maidens, or some crazy dictator looking for cheap labor at uranium mines - they all are different too, and not searching for same "5t of slaves". I think, what needs to be done is to make this business less faceless, so players will feel not so detached while carrying full cargo of sentient beings one point of their suffering to another.

All this leads to the actual question - if I'll find time to give this part of Oolite some love, how far can I go into territory of grim-darkness/indecency? I'm almost sure that my fantasy being unrestricted can easily produce things too uncomfortable as gameplay element for many of you here. So, what kind of restrictions would you vote for, in yet hypothetical case of me finding time for this kind of expansion?

Though, no modding community can be honestly called mature until it has at least one mod with dicks.

[Disembodied]

As far as I know there is no policy on this sort of thing, or even any kind of settled community opinion. Personally, I'd say you're free to do what you want, although if you want to upload it to the wiki then it would be best if it carried some sort of parental advisory. I'd also say there would be a difference between an OXP (or a piece of fiction) which included text descriptions of material which some people might find offensive, and one which included images which some people might find offensive (and, depending on what part of the world people are from, there might be different legal implications there too).

For me, personally, I think the single biggest flaw in the game's slave trade is the lack of profitability. It's easy to hold the moral high ground and refuse to trade in slaves, because you can make much better money trading in other things. If you can make slaves into a valuable commodity, and give the player a route around the legal restrictions (as Cim's [wiki]New Cargoes[/wiki] sometimes does), then the player is faced with a much larger moral dilemma. Although I can also see that people might find some grey areas depending on whether the slaves are presented as e.g. violent criminals sentenced to hard labour, or civilian captives from some war zone.

[Cody]

Though, no modding community can be honestly called mature until it has at least one mod with dicks.

Disagree - a 'mod with dicks' is certainly not a sign of maturity!

[Norby]

Moral dilemmas are already a part of the game like to steal or not to steal, be strict or be uber, but sexual content is another question imho. If I remember right then once an author asked the same before wrote a fiction with "explicit" content, then decided to post not here but in his own site due to this forum probably read by childrens also.

So I think we should describe the darkness of slavery in moderated form only and avoid "r18" background images in OXPs.

[diagoras]

I'd also say there would be a difference between an OXP (or a piece of fiction) which included text descriptions of material which some people might find offensive, and one which included images which some people might find offensive (and, depending on what part of the world people are from, there might be different legal implications there too).

It will remain text only unless someone would appear to join and provide graphical design, because that's definitely not my strong side.

If you can make slaves into a valuable commodity, and give the player a route around the legal restrictions (as Cim's [EliteWiki] New Cargoes sometimes does), then the player is faced with a much larger moral dilemma.

That's part of the plan, of course.

Although I can also see that people might find some grey areas depending on whether the slaves are presented as e.g. violent criminals sentenced to hard labour, or civilian captives from some war zone.

My idea was to present players whole spectrum of "greyness", so they would have chance to test their moral values on full-scale theme park of slippery slopes

Disagree - a 'mod with dicks' is certainly not a sign of maturity!

Now you wasted perfectly good pun

So I think we should describe the darkness of slavery in moderated form only and avoid "r18" background images in OXPs.

Well, I'm myself not sure if pornographically explicit material can be naturally inserted to oolite. So, currently I'm thinking of starting from pretty tame "implied explicitness" on levels of Star Wars/Flash Gordon. Then we'll see how it goes with game mechanics and decide direction for the future.

[Smivs]

I'm myself not sure if pornographically explicit material can be naturally inserted to oolite.

Like the way Lobstoid porn looks like an advert for a seafood platter to most Humanoid races.

[diagoras]

Like the way Lobstoid porn looks like an advert for a seafood platter to most Humanoid races.

Now you make this sound like challenge

[ffutures]

When I saw that title my immediate thought was the UFO interceptor spaceships in UFO, which carried a rather unfortunately shaped missile:



Not sure I like the idea of making the slave trade more interesting, unless you make fighting it more interesting too.

[ffutures]

As far as I know there is no policy on this sort of thing, or even any kind of settled community opinion. Personally, I'd say you're free to do what you want, although if you want to upload it to the wiki then it would be best if it carried some sort of parental advisory. I'd also say there would be a difference between an OXP (or a piece of fiction) which included text descriptions of material which some people might find offensive, and one which included images which some people might find offensive (and, depending on what part of the world people are from, there might be different legal implications there too).

For me, personally, I think the single biggest flaw in the game's slave trade is the lack of profitability. It's easy to hold the moral high ground and refuse to trade in slaves, because you can make much better money trading in other things. If you can make slaves into a valuable commodity, and give the player a route around the legal restrictions (as Cim's [wiki]New Cargoes[/wiki] sometimes does), then the player is faced with a much larger moral dilemma. Although I can also see that people might find some grey areas depending on whether the slaves are presented as e.g. violent criminals sentenced to hard labour, or civilian captives from some war zone.

There's actually a trick that makes all forms of smuggling much easier at present - buy planetary landing capability and buy illegal goods on planet, so you don't get classed as an offender. Currently this is a bit broken for legal goods, because the goods on sale are the same as at the station - this was a quick fix to the OXP after Oolite 1.81 came out and has never been redone to give them a real independent market. So if you buy all of the computers on sale in the space station, there are none for sale when you land. But with illegal goods there is nothing to stop you landing with slaves aboard, selling them, going to the station to refuel, then landing and buying them back if you want to go on somewhere else. I haven't checked this, but I suspect that you could dock at the station, sell the slaves there so that you leave the station legally, then land and buy the slaves that are suddenly on sale on the ground...

[Norby]

buy planetary landing capability and buy illegal goods on planet

When slaves are illegal to export on main station then illegal to launch with them from the planet also - I successfully got offender status in my test.

Because the planetary station is created by Planetfall only at the moment when you landed it inherit the actual market prices and cargo amounts of the main station, yes. You can abuse this as well as use OoCheat oxp.

[diagoras]

When I saw that title my immediate thought was the UFO interceptor spaceships in UFO, which carried a rather unfortunately shaped missile

Heh I was thinking more of something like ship from Deep Space 69.

Not sure I like the idea of making the slave trade more interesting, unless you make fighting it more interesting too.

Well, probably some ideas about fighting slave trading may arise while making it more interesting. Because right now there is basically nothing to fight against.

[Cmdr James]

I can see a place for special missions ferrying porn/prostitutes whatever but other than that I cant really see a place for "adult content". Ships with dicks dont make sense to me outside of a kind of rule34 joke.

As for slaves, I tihnk treating them as a commodity is kind of the point. It isnt 5 slaves, it is "dunno mate, I just ship the boxes, dont care whats inside, if it says 5t of slaves then its 5t of slaves".

[ffutures]

buy planetary landing capability and buy illegal goods on planet

When slaves are illegal to export on main station then illegal to launch with them from the planet also - I successfully got offender status in my test.

My mistake - I could have sworn that wasn't the case. Since I've never actually tried it except once when I picked up a ton of slaves, landed and took off again with it on board there may have been some unusual circumstances.

Because the planetary station is created by Planetfall only at the moment when you landed it inherit the actual market prices and cargo amounts of the main station, yes. You can abuse this as well as use OoCheat oxp.

That makes Planetfall more or less pointless - you can't land and buy more cargo of a type that the station has sold out of, you can't offload more goods while the price is extra high, etc., and if there isn't even any difference in legality... Add in the fact that landing became VERY slow in 1.81 without actually being more difficult, and it feels like the game has been biased against it. I think that there's another OXP that uses this capability for courier contracts - can't remember the name - is it actually usable with all the changes that have been made?

[Lone_Wolf]

I think that there's another OXP that uses this capability for courier contracts - can't remember the name -

That would be Feudal States, you have to land on the planet to get missions.
Those missions are accessible from F8 screen, so for Feudal States planetfall markets are unimportant.

[diagoras]

Ships with dicks dont make sense to me outside of a kind of rule34 joke.

Of course it was a joke - I'm not even a modeler. Looks like I missed your funny bone.

dunno mate, I just ship the boxes, dont care whats inside, if it says 5t of slaves then its 5t of slaves

This works with shipping contracts, yes. But many commanders do not want to be just a delivery boys - whole concept of market trading in elite universe is about making your own business. And when you are working for yourself, you need to know your goods if you want to be effective. Problem with slave trading using markets in current oolite is not providing immersion of making business beyond "moral event horizon" - it is presented like any other commodity trading, just with "illegal" flag. What I want to do is to offer player _immersion_ of exchanging humanity for profits. Do you really want to buy this Fer-de-Lance? Then stop hiding behind "just shipping boxes" and start checking eye colors of scared women in the boxes, because that lord from feudal hellhole offered you nice bonus for satisfying his particular tastes in the future. That's what good moral dilemma should look like, in my humble opinion.