(Beta) Mining Contracts

[diagoras]

I played for a few hours and from that I feel that the payment is about right. You work you butt off and the payroll shows how little they appreciate you. On the other hand, my account kept steadily increasing. I operated from the same hermit and all the time there were at least two contracts to select from and at most I think six. I don't think the number of contracts is a problem, the similarity of them is. Mix in contracts with better pay and very strict deadlines to get more variety. Now there's no real need to select, all contracts are easily doable. And I don't mean that they all need to be harder, just more variety.

OK, got it - I have similar feelings. Probably next release will be mainly dedicated to experimenting with adding variety. I really want to make contract choosing meaningful.

* The contracts could be spiced/personalized a bit by using the in-game name generator. So in addition to the company name, there could be a contact person or email or something. Assuming there's room in the page naturally. Have you checked the contract texts in Random Hits? Maybe something could be borrowed from there.

Good idea - will put this on TODO, though not for next release probably.

* It would be nice to browse the contracts with "next" and "previous".

Useful and easy - will include in next release.

* What is the bounty for defaulters? Is it the size of the Forfeit penalty? If it is (and if it's not, I think it should be), then it would be nice to mention it.

Right now bounty is fixed independently of debt size. Script just calculates your unclaimed rewards against unpaid fees and if sum of fees is larger, then 50Cr bounty is added. I have been thinking of making it proportional instead, but it don't looks like oolite bounty mechanics answers this purpose. I feel that oolite bounty is more for measuring danger of criminals - it can't be paid off, but it decreases with interstellar jumps. Unfortunately, oolite do not have mechanics for small debts. It would be fun if instead of setting bounty your debt could be resold to someone like Black Monks, but their grandiosity really speaks of operating on five-digit scales.

* The list page could do a bit of facelifting. Something like Parcel Delivery Contracts looks like?

Again, good idea. TODO updated, but if there is no ready-to-use tools for table-like formatting, I wouldn't be expecting to see this in next version.

EDIT:

* It would also be nice to see how much minerals I am going to dispatch. Something like "Dispatch cargo (6t)".

Easy and useful - expect in next version.

* The contract should clearly say what happens, if I leave the system in the middle of the contract. And why am I not allowed to leave system? It's the deadline that counts, not where I get the minerals from. Right?

Speaking honestly, I simply do not want to add support for tracking separate contract lists for different systems - it adds complexity to script beyond initial purpose of expansion. Speaking of lore, my head-canon justifies this with specifics of mining industry - any incompetent fool barely knowing from which end mining laser fires can buy cheap transporter and try his luck at Rock Hermit. Many of them are incapable to perform good enough not to get in debt to companies and are fleeing to the other systems for fresh start. That's why all local Mining Associations are enforcing "leave system - contracts terminated" clause - without it they would be waiting for miners who obviously will never return too often.

[spara]

* What is the bounty for defaulters? Is it the size of the Forfeit penalty? If it is (and if it's not, I think it should be), then it would be nice to mention it.

Right now bounty is fixed independently of debt size. Script just calculates your unclaimed rewards against unpaid fees and if sum of fees is larger, then 50Cr bounty is added. I have been thinking of making it proportional instead, but it don't looks like oolite bounty mechanics answers this purpose. I feel that oolite bounty is more for measuring danger of criminals - it can't be paid off, but it decreases with interstellar jumps. Unfortunately, oolite do not have mechanics for small debts. It would be fun if instead of setting bounty your debt could be resold to someone like Black Monks, but their grandiosity really speaks of operating on five-digit scales.

How about softening it so that on defaulting the player is marked with defaulter status and debt as long as he/she stays in system. At this point the Contracts interface changes so that the player does not get any new contracts, just the possibility to pay the debt. After the debt is payed, all is good again. The way I see it, is that in the eyes of a big company, a miner is meaningless, just like an under payed worked can assumed to be. I can easily imagine these lowlifes to disappear and appear again. Business as usual, but the debt must be payed. You don't get paid, if you miss the deadline, right?

* The list page could do a bit of facelifting. Something like Parcel Delivery Contracts looks like?

Again, good idea. TODO updated, but if there is no ready-to-use tools for table-like formatting, I wouldn't be expecting to see this in next version.

Tabbing functionality can be snitched from the core scripts. I can help you out here, if you want. In a week or so.

* The contract should clearly say what happens, if I leave the system in the middle of the contract. And why am I not allowed to leave system? It's the deadline that counts, not where I get the minerals from. Right?

Speaking honestly, I simply do not want to add support for tracking separate contract lists for different systems - it adds complexity to script beyond initial purpose of expansion. Speaking of lore, my head-canon justifies this with specifics of mining industry - any incompetent fool barely knowing from which end mining laser fires can buy cheap transporter and try his luck at Rock Hermit. Many of them are incapable to perform good enough not to get in debt to companies and are fleeing to the other systems for fresh start. That's why all local Mining Associations are enforcing "leave system - contracts terminated" clause - without it they would be waiting for miners who obviously will never return too often.

Makes sense, the working class just can't be trusted. Nice reasoning .

[diagoras]

How about softening it so that on defaulting the player is marked with defaulter status and debt as long as he/she stays in system.

You speak of hardening here, not softening Right now, completely failed contract do not requires immediate payment - it just stays in the list in its failed state until you pay debt on it. Player is not even prevented to get new contracts, like you propose (though this sounds interesting, thanks). Player is considered defaulter only on leaving the system with unpaid debts.

You don't get paid, if you miss the deadline, right?

Actually, you still get your reward minus penalty for tonnage lacking. Idea is that reward per ton is always below market (about half of market price usually), while penalty is always equal to market price. If you are ton or two behind when deadline comes it's not that critical - you just get slightly worse pay-per-ton. But if you are total failure unable to get even half of work done in time, you get in debt.

Tabbing functionality can be snitched from the core scripts. I can help you out here, if you want. In a week or so.

We'll see in a week, I suppose - maybe by then I'll carve some time to study it out myself.

[spara]

How about softening it so that on defaulting the player is marked with defaulter status and debt as long as he/she stays in system.

You speak of hardening here, not softening Right now, completely failed contract do not requires immediate payment - it just stays in the list in its failed state until you pay debt on it. Player is not even prevented to get new contracts, like you propose (though this sounds interesting, thanks). Player is considered defaulter only on leaving the system with unpaid debts.

It just feels a bit wrong to put a bounty on a hard working miner. One more idea, following your current implementation. How about interrupting the next payment/payments after defaulting and subtracting the debt first? Forcing you to pay first before making more credits on mining.

Tabbing functionality can be snitched from the core scripts. I can help you out here, if you want. In a week or so.

We'll see in a week, I suppose - maybe by then I'll carve some time to study it out myself.

That's the spirit, I also like to take every opportunity to learn more. Except 3D modeling, that would consume too much personal time . Maybe some day...

[diagoras]

It just feels a bit wrong to put a bounty on a hard working miner.

I completely agree. Unfortunately, oolite universe is harsh place where interstellar collection agencies working with small debts are not yet invented. Someone need to make OXP for it, but not me.

How about interrupting the next payment/payments after defaulting and subtracting the debt first? Forcing you to pay first before making more credits on mining.

Sounds good. I'll check how this will be looking in code.

[diagoras]

http://bitbucket.org/diagoras/oolite/do ... s_1.5b.oxz

spara, please take a look at this experimental release - along with several interface improvements I have made some changes to mechanics. Contract deadlines are on average slightly stricter now, and at each point of time there should be significantly less contracts available (this won't affect contracts that have been generated before version upgrade). To compensate this, in main menu new button appeared - "Wait for new contract". When you press it, game time fast-forwards about one hour until some company presents new contract. During this time some of existing contracts may disappear (due other miners accepting them or companies taking them down) and of course deadlines for them are becoming closer without increased reward. So, you need to choose, if you want to take what is presented now, or wait for potentially better offers without any guaranties.

I would be glad to hear your feedback before uploading to manager.

UPD: reuploaded without couple of typos and unimportant bugs.

[spara]

Tested the new version out. Here are my observations. Some minor, some not so minor and some just suggestions.

* Nice introductory flavor text.
* Next/Prev selections should stay from page to page so that the player can browse through them by just pressing enter. Check how the core interface for contracts works.
* Terms and conditions is now clear. Add one space after ":".
* Add something like "Exit Mining Contracts" to the intro page like in core contracts.
* Instead of Deficiency I would prefer Delivered or something. Example "Delivered: 17/54 t of minerals" or "Contract: 17/54 t of minerals" or something.

The frequency of new contracts feels too low now. Instead of one or two contracts + time forwarding I would like to see more contracts with some of them being really challenging, so that I would have to choose and being able to compare them with each other. Now it's more like forward, forward, forward, select, deliver, forward, forward, select, etc. In other words, I don't ever have to take tough contracts. Ideal would be 2-5 contracts available most of the time and one or two of them being real hard ones.

It's getting better. Keep up the good work.

[diagoras]

Beware, new version is in the manager. Adjusted balance, new features - enjoy yourself

spara, I have tuned amount of contracts back up, only slightly below levels of 1.4 - but I couldn't made myself to get rid of waiting feature. It feels too natural to be able to drink some local godawful synthetic spirits while waiting for new contracts at the lobby Most of the other things you suggested are here.

[spara]

Beware, new version is in the manager. Adjusted balance, new features - enjoy yourself

Monday again, back to work. I wish I had more time in my hands.

...I couldn't made myself to get rid of waiting feature. It feels too natural to be able to drink some local godawful synthetic spirits while waiting for new contracts at the lobby .

Well, with the time forward feature the frequency or selection doesn't matter at all. If you're mining, it's highly unlikely you're doing anything time critical, so you can forward as much as you wish. If you're not happy what they are offering, just throw the dice again. And again. And again.

[diagoras]

If you're mining, it's highly unlikely you're doing anything time critical, so you can forward as much as you wish. If you're not happy what they are offering, just throw the dice again. And again. And again.

Well, yes - excessive waiting smells like a form of cheating, even if I myself feel discouraged from it just by seeing game time spent so unproductively. Maybe I should add small waiting fee for people who care less about it? This needs to be justified somehow though.

[Amah]

well, you eat, drink, rest, use sanitions, energy banks recharged. Your ship takes up precious space in the docking bay... After all a rock hermit is a hub for loading/unloading, not a resting place. Just some ideas to make fees plausible.

btw. nice oxp

[diagoras]

well, you eat, drink, rest, use sanitions, energy banks recharged. Your ship takes up precious space in the docking bay... After all a rock hermit is a hub for loading/unloading, not a resting place. Just some ideas to make fees plausible.

btw. nice oxp

Thank you for compliment and advice - new version is up, now with resting pods for tired miners

[spara]

Tested the new version and it's very good. 3 cr time warp does not ruin your economy, but it makes you think if you want to do it. The interface is now quite fluid and easy to use. Great job.

And here are some development suggestions that occurred to me while playing. Take 'em or leave 'em as usual.

The biggest problem for me is finding hermits overall and finding them again when venturing away from a hermit. The first hermit in Zaonce is easy, but after that it gets trickier. One could assume that there is some mechanism for finding hermits if you are a miner. I don't like the Rock Hermit Locator oxp, it's too much as it reveals them all and sort of ruins the mystery around them. The Local Mining Association of Zaonce in a contract text gave me the next idea.

* When you take a contract on a hermit, you automatically get a waypoint to the current hermit.
* The local mining association has an office at the main station and as a miner you can get a waypoint to a local hermit from there following these rules:
-> You get mining reputation from doing contracts. Reputation is straightly based on credits.
-> Reputation halves on each witchspace jump.
-> You can get a waypoint(s) to the local hermit(s) from the local mining assosiation office at the main station, if miner's rating is high enough (100?)
-> You could possibly get waypoints automatically on entering system with high reputation (1000?)
* No mechanism to get waypoints permanently. Always link to reputation. No point in making another Hermit Locator.
* Local waypoints get removed on witchspace jump.

[spara]

After playing a bit more, that 3 cr per time forward feels game wise a bit low. You can do it 10 times for 30 credits and the lowest pay from a job I have seen has been ~50 cr. You probably have thought that 3cr thoroughly, but upping the cost to 5 cr (or 4 or 6 cr if you want to avoid that boring number 5 ) might be an idea.

[diagoras]

spara, thanks for feedback - I'll double resting fee in next version and probably will add hermit waypoint while on active contracts. I like idea about mining reputation helping in locating new hermits after witchjumps too, but this will require some more extensive testing and I don't have much time right now. In a week may be.