Proposal for 1.82: updates to service level / maintenance

[Disembodied]

If this service interval has to interrupt gamplay, so be it. Lets fix the ship and that's it!

Personally, I think either we make ship servicing more important/influential, and the decisions surrounding it more important/influential, or we do away with it entirely, as per Cim's alternative:

Alternative option

• Get rid of Service Level entirely and make the current JS value always return 100% SL for compatibility. It's not a very effective money sink at the moment, and the penalty for ignoring it is negligible. So, an alternative to trying to make it interesting enough to add fun, we could just take it out and simplify the game a bit.

[Smivs]

The more I think about this the more I'm thinking maybe we should keep it simple. After all servicing my car is not a major decision hassle in my life - I know when it's due and I just do it around the right time. So I'm thinking now that a bit of advance warning is all we need, so we can plan around it (find a decent TL world) and have the option of having it done a bit early if that makes sense at the time.

[Venator Dha]

It strikes me that the question is whether a more complex service system is better as a core or OXP. If the core was designed to allow the more complex suggestions (which I like) to be applied by an OXP, we should be able to keep everyone happy.

[Stormrider]

It strikes me that the question is whether a more complex service system is better as a core or OXP. If the core was designed to allow the more complex suggestions (which I like) to be applied by an OXP, we should be able to keep everyone happy.

I agree with this, I'd like to see a lot of these ideas in the game but obvoiusly some players might not like some or any of them. I do think more effects of poor maintenance are needed. Visual effects in the HUD make sense but may prove to annoying for some players, exhaust effects really make sense and may be less so. I like disrupted equipment, I think it really lends to the idea of back-up systems taking a moment to kick in.

So I'm thinking now that a bit of advance warning is all we need, so we can plan around it (find a decent TL world) and have the option of having it done a bit early if that makes sense at the time.

I agree with this too. Your Cobbie should have a better computer than your car, right now a mechanic can hook your car up to a diagnostic computer and find out what is wrong with it(sometimes ). I think your spaceship will have an onboard diagnostic display which a pilot can access and find out exactly what the state of every system is, or alternatively a check engine light that lets you know you are going to need service soon.

[cim]

Personally, I think either we make ship servicing more important/influential, and the decisions surrounding it more important/influential, or we do away with it entirely

Agreed there. On this occasion I don't mind necessarily putting a moderately complex servicing mechanic into core if it's fun, since OXPing it out for those who want more simplicity is very easy

Code: Select all

this.shipExitedWitchspace = this.shipDockedWithStation = function()
{
    player.ship.serviceLevel = 100;
}

(in theory you could take enough SL damage to notice in a single trip, but it's not very likely, and the amount of fire you'd have taken your ship would be rather more obviously a mess anyway)

On the price variation ... I think a bit of price variation between shipyards might be a good idea to give a hint that the higher TL yards will give a better service (after all, that's been in Oolite for years and not everyone knows it) - but probably not as much as you're suggesting. Perhaps a factor of 2 between the best and worst?

If the core was designed to allow the more complex suggestions (which I like) to be applied by an OXP

Certainly any solution would have various hooks on it to let OXPs change or potentially completely rewrite it. At the moment I'm working on adding more OXP flexibility to the existing equipment items, so maintenance will get that too even if it gets left as-is for 1.80.

say we have 2 pilots :
A has a rep of 60 , kill count of 100, SL >75
B has a rep of 60, kill count of 130, SL below 50

Which pilot would have a better chance to deliver the package on time ?

With identical rep and close kill count, in that case I'd expect SL to have quite a significant effect. More interesting might be a case like this:
A has a rep of 16 , kill count of 100, SL >75
B has a rep of 60, kill count of 1300, SL below 50

Now which one do you trust more?

[pagroove]

Good ideas

What I also like to see is increased wear on the Hyperspace engine if you break of a jump. For example when you press H too early and the Hyperspace engine starts spinning only to be interrupted by the gravity effect.

If you do that often you should get more chance of misjumps.

[Disembodied]

On the price variation ... I think a bit of price variation between shipyards might be a good idea to give a hint that the higher TL yards will give a better service (after all, that's been in Oolite for years and not everyone knows it) - but probably not as much as you're suggesting. Perhaps a factor of 2 between the best and worst?

Hum ... a larger variation is worth considering about, I think. Servicing is still going to be a relatively occasional purchase, so players won't encounter different prices all that often, and might not notice. Although if the option (or at least a "tune-up"/maintenance) is made permanently visible, then players will have more chance to see a cost of 300Cr here and 5000Cr there. A smaller difference is also less important.

The difference between the most expensive TL 6 planet in G1 (Socelage, Democracy, Rich Agri, 12800MCr. production, local price variant = 1280Cr.) and the cheapest TL 6 planet (Reorte, Dictatorship, Poor Agri, 5280 MCr. production, local price variant = 528Cr.) would be 752Cr., using my crude "10%" mechanism. Generally, though, most of the TL 6 systems are averaging out to a local price variant of around somewhere around 700-800Cr. All should be equally competent, but I think a bit of stretching between the top of the scale and the bottom is a good thing. If players really want to shop around, they can, but if they can't be bothered or don't have the time then it's not like they're losing a fortune by not going to the cheapest. A larger variation makes it easier to get away from a straight linear progression from cheapest to most expensive.

Just to be clear, I don't think that any "local price variant" should be added on top of the existing servicing costs. The average total cost of servicing a ship should remain more or less the same: but a select few places will do it cheap and some will really make you pay. Overall, the absolute top-end ones will be the most expensive, and players can aspire to being able to afford the best of the best one day (and, once they make their millions, they can enjoy the cachet of paying for a full service in a TL15 system).

[spud42]

It strikes me that the question is whether a more complex service system is better as a core or OXP. If the core was designed to allow the more complex suggestions (which I like) to be applied by an OXP, we should be able to keep everyone happy.

This... if you want to complicate the servicing of the ship make it an OXZ so it can be added by those who want it and leave core as is for the rest or maybe add the "service due" light

[Lone_Wolf]

say we have 2 pilots :
A has a rep of 60 , kill count of 100, SL >75
B has a rep of 60, kill count of 130, SL below 50

Which pilot would have a better chance to deliver the package on time ?

With identical rep and close kill count, in that case I'd expect SL to have quite a significant effect. More interesting might be a case like this:
A has a rep of 16 , kill count of 100, SL >75
B has a rep of 60, kill count of 1300, SL below 50

Now which one do you trust more?

Point taken, SL should only have a minor influence on chance to get offered parcel contracts.

[Cody]

SL should only have a minor influence on chance to get offered parcel contracts.

Have I missed something here? Does/will SL affect parcel contract offers? I hope not!

[Lone_Wolf]

SL should only have a minor influence on chance to get offered parcel contracts.

Have I missed something here? Does/will SL affect parcel contract offers? I hope not!

In 1.80 it doesn't.

This thread has multiple discussions going on at the same time , this is what happenend :
Venator Dha commented a high SL could lead to better prices for passenger transports, cim liked that idea and felt it could also matter somewhat for cargo contracts.
I then commented it could also be used for parcel contracts, gave an example where it could matter, cim came with another example and i replied.

[Cody]

Thanks for the clarification - I obviously did miss that.

I don't know about passenger/cargo contracts, but if I had some sensitive documents/weapon designs that I needed delivered, I wouldn't give a monkey's about the courier's ship SL - if the courier had a proven record of ahead-of-deadline delivery, that would be enough to offer the contract.

[Venator Dha]

If the proposals from cim get implemented there will be more consequences for not having a good service level, which could affect the ability of a courier to delver on time.
My thoughts are that passengers are likely to be the most influenced by the SL, however having a good SL could be taken as a third criteria for choosing a courier for parcels along with Rep & combat rating. For an established courier with high Rep & combat rating it shouldn't make much difference, except to give a better price - it could be a multiplier to an extra payment when delivered early. For a courier who's building there rep it could give the opportunity to take a better paying contract.
If these proposals are implemented then there has to be some positives & negatives to having a good SL - this could be one of them.

[cim]

I don't know about passenger/cargo contracts, but if I had some sensitive documents/weapon designs that I needed delivered, I wouldn't give a monkey's about the courier's ship SL - if the courier had a proven record of ahead-of-deadline delivery, that would be enough to offer the contract.

Indeed. Cargo/parcel may well get offered and accepted with you never even being in the same system as the person providing the contract. As a minor factor most significant to new couriers, an obviously well-maintained ship might provide some indication of trustworthiness of someone with no real record, if the offerer's "desperation" priority is low.

Passengers I was thinking considerably more so since they actually have to travel in the ship, and it doesn't matter how good a reputation the pilot has, you still have to sit in a passenger cabin with the water level at least a foot too low/too high for several weeks. Again, offerers with high desperation probably wouldn't care.

[Disembodied]

Have I missed something here? Does/will SL affect parcel contract offers? I hope not!

SL level doesn't have to affect the chance of parcel/passenger contract offers being made: it might be easier if it just adds a little extra to the money the player is offered for taking the deal. But it's definitely more of a factor for passenger contracts, where passengers would believably pay a premium not to travel in a ship with a funny smell, and/or where the drive train makes a series of intermittent banging noises every 8.4 minutes. (What we need is a TripAdviser OXP ... or an addition to the Reputations OXP where passengers can give reviews of the flight. )