Her Imperial Majesty's Space Navy

[Smivs]

Indeed. My feeling is that (unless you meet them via a mission scenario) these things should only be seen extremely rarely...say once every two or three galaxies.

Edited to add:- By the way, the Komodo model is by Storm, and I seem to remember he had a few other goodies under way for this as well. Hopefully he'll look in soon.

[Cody]

<nods> Yes... very rarely seen is best.

[Switeck]

Okay well I think these two could be okay together...but big ships should be really rare - it should be like a treat to see one. One thing GN did was over use the big ships, I think it would be better to almost never see them in system and occasionally see them in interstellar space.

GN seemed to always make interstellar space a constant bar brawl. If anything, interstellar space (misjumps) should be overwhelmingly empty. Not even a single Thargoid most of the time, unless it's a Thargoid ambush initiated by them rather than the player.

On the other hand, any warship should be most likely encountered where it is being repaired/resupplied/overhauled OR where it is fighting or about to fight.
So yes, if it is encountered "on the move" it's probably in interstellar space.

Either such warships have to have their own special shipyards or they have to "borrow" existing ones, which only the Superhub seems large enough. Even then, how could you tell they're "docked" if their station totally encloses them?

[Pleb]

Okay, the following is a very rough and basic patrol AI for a naval patrol ship and it's escorts:

Code: Select all

{
	GLOBAL =
	{
		ENTER = (checkForNormalSpace);
		"NORMAL_SPACE" = ("rollD: 3");
		"ROLL_1" = ("setStateTo: HEAD_FOR_WITCHPOINT");
		"ROLL_2" = ("setStateTo: HEAD_FOR_SUN");
		"ROLL_3" = ("setStateTo: HEAD_FOR_PLANET");
		"INTERSTELLAR_SPACE" = ("setStateTo: HUNT_FOR_THARGOIDS");
	};
	"HEAD_FOR_PLANET" =
	{
		ENTER = (setCourseToPlanet, "setDesiredRangeTo: 50000.0", checkCourseToDestination);
		"COURSE_OK" = (setSpeedToCruiseSpeed, performFlyToRangeFromDestination);
		"WAYPOINT_SET" = ("setAITo: gotoWaypointAI.plist");
		"AEGIS_CLOSE_TO_MAIN_PLANET" = ("rollD: 2");
		"DESIRED_RANGE_ACHIEVED" = ("rollD: 2");
		"ROLL_1" = ("setStateTo: HEAD_FOR_WITCHPOINT");
		"ROLL_2" = ("setStateTo: HEAD_FOR_SUN");
		"TARGET_FOUND" = (setTargetToFoundTarget, deployEscorts, groupAttackTarget);
		"INCOMING_MISSILE" = (fightOrFleeMissile, setTargetToPrimaryAggressor, deployEscorts, groupAttackTarget);
		"CASCADE_WEAPON_DETECTED" = ("setAITo: fleeQMineAI.plist");
		ATTACKED = (setTargetToPrimaryAggressor, groupAttackTarget);
		"ATTACKER_MISSED" = (setTargetToPrimaryAggressor, groupAttackTarget);
        "ATTACKED_BY_CLOAKED" = ("setAITo: interceptAI.plist", "setStateTo: FLEE_FOR_CLOAKED"); 
		"GROUP_ATTACK_TARGET" = (setTargetToFoundTarget, "setAITo: interceptAI.plist");
		RESTARTED = (checkAegis);
		UPDATE = (setCourseToPlanet, "setDesiredRangeTo: 50000.0", checkCourseToDestination, scanForThargoid, "pauseAI: 10.0");
	};
	"HEAD_FOR_WITCHPOINT" =
	{
		ENTER = (setCourseToWitchpoint, checkCourseToDestination);
		"COURSE_OK" = (setSpeedToCruiseSpeed, performFlyToRangeFromDestination);
		"WAYPOINT_SET" = ("setAITo: gotoWaypointAI.plist");
		"LAUNCHED OKAY" = ("dropMessages: WAYPOINT_SET", "pauseAI: 1.0");
		"DESIRED_RANGE_ACHIEVED" = ("rollD: 2");
		"ROLL_1" = ("setStateTo: HEAD_FOR_PLANET");
		"ROLL_2" = ("setStateTo: HEAD_FOR_SUN");
		"TARGET_FOUND" = (setTargetToFoundTarget, deployEscorts, groupAttackTarget);
		"INCOMING_MISSILE" = (fightOrFleeMissile, setTargetToPrimaryAggressor, deployEscorts, groupAttackTarget);
		"CASCADE_WEAPON_DETECTED" = ("setAITo: fleeQMineAI.plist");
		"ATTACKER_MISSED" = (setTargetToPrimaryAggressor, groupAttackTarget);
		ATTACKED = (setTargetToPrimaryAggressor, groupAttackTarget);
        "ATTACKED_BY_CLOAKED" = ("setAITo: interceptAI.plist", "setStateTo: FLEE_FOR_CLOAKED"); 
		"GROUP_ATTACK_TARGET" = (setTargetToFoundTarget, "setAITo: interceptAI.plist");
		UPDATE = (setCourseToWitchpoint, checkCourseToDestination, scanForThargoid, "pauseAI: 10.0");
	};
	"HEAD_FOR_SUN" =
	{
		ENTER = (setSunSkimStartCoordinates);
		"WAIT_FOR_SUN" = ("pauseAI: 10.0", setSunSkimStartCoordinates);
		"APPROACH_COORDINATES" = (setDestinationFromCoordinates, "setDesiredRangeTo: 25000", checkCourseToDestination);
		"COURSE_OK" = (setSpeedToCruiseSpeed, performFlyToRangeFromDestination);
		"WAYPOINT_SET" = ("setAITo: gotoWaypointAI.plist");
		"DESIRED_RANGE_ACHIEVED" = ("rollD: 2");
		"CLOSE_TO_SUN" = ("rollD: 2");
		"ROLL_1" = ("setStateTo: HEAD_FOR_PLANET");
		"ROLL_2" = ("setStateTo: HEAD_FOR_WITCHPOINT");
		ATTACKED = (setTargetToPrimaryAggressor, groupAttackTarget);
		"ATTACKER_MISSED" = (setTargetToPrimaryAggressor, groupAttackTarget);
        "ATTACKED_BY_CLOAKED" = ("setAITo: interceptAI.plist", "setStateTo: FLEE_FOR_CLOAKED"); 
		"INCOMING_MISSILE" = (fightOrFleeMissile, setTargetToPrimaryAggressor, deployEscorts, groupAttackTarget);
		"CASCADE_WEAPON_DETECTED" = ("setAITo: fleeQMineAI.plist");
		"TARGET_FOUND" = (setTargetToFoundTarget, deployEscorts, groupAttackTarget);
		"GROUP_ATTACK_TARGET" = (setTargetToFoundTarget, "setAITo: interceptAI.plist");
		UPDATE = (scanForThargoid, checkCourseToDestination, "pauseAI: 10.0");
	};
	"HUNT_FOR_THARGOIDS" = 
	{
		ENTER = (scanForThargoid, "pauseAI: 10.0");
		"TARGET_FOUND" = (setTargetToFoundTarget, deployEscorts, groupAttackTarget);
		"INCOMING_MISSILE" = (fightOrFleeMissile, setTargetToPrimaryAggressor, deployEscorts, groupAttackTarget);
		"CASCADE_WEAPON_DETECTED" = ("setAITo: fleeQMineAI.plist");
		ATTACKED = (setTargetToPrimaryAggressor, groupAttackTarget);
		"ATTACKER_MISSED" = (setTargetToPrimaryAggressor, groupAttackTarget);
        "ATTACKED_BY_CLOAKED" = ("setAITo: interceptAI.plist", "setStateTo: FLEE_FOR_CLOAKED"); 
		"GROUP_ATTACK_TARGET" = (setTargetToFoundTarget, "setAITo: interceptAI.plist");
		UPDATE = (scanForThargoid, "pauseAI: 10.0");
	}
}

This would allow it to patrol the three main routes: witchpoint to planet, planet to sun and sun to witchpoint. It won't interfere in other events going on and is only looking for Thargoids. If the group is attacked they will engage and destroy. It's basically just a modified version of the standard patrol AI, but with small alterations. Also, if the ships are in interstellar space they will just find and destroy the Thargoids.

For my test example, I used an Asp as the Patrol Leader and had Sidewinders as the escorts:

Code: Select all

{
	"space_navy_patrol_leader" = 
	{
		"ai_type" = "space_navy_patrolAI.plist";
		"bounty" = "0";
		"escorts" = "6";
		"escort_role" = "space_navy_patrol_escort";
		"forward_weapon_type" = "WEAPON_MILITARY_LASER";
		"fuel" = 70;
		"has_ecm" = "yes";
		"has_escape_pod" = "yes";
		"has_fuel_injection" = "yes";
		"has_shield_booster" = "yes";
		"has_shield_enhancer" = "yes";
		"laser_color" = "blueColor";
		"like_ship" = "asp";
		"missiles" = "4";
		"missile_role" = "EQ_HARDENED_MISSILE";
		"name" = "Imperial Naval Asp";
		"roles" = "space_navy_patrol_leader";
		"scan_class" = "CLASS_MILITARY";
		"starboard_weapon_type" = "WEAPON_MILITARY_LASER";
	};
	
	"space_navy_patrol_escort" = 
	{
		"ai_type" = "space_navy_patrolAI.plist";
		"bounty" = "0";
		"forward_weapon_type" = "WEAPON_MILITARY_LASER";
		"fuel" = 70;
		"has_ecm" = "yes";
		"has_escape_pod" = "yes";
		"has_fuel_injection" = "yes";
		"has_shield_booster" = "yes";
		"has_shield_enhancer" = "yes";
		"laser_color" = "blueColor";
		"like_ship" = "sidewinder";
		"missiles" = "4";
		"missile_role" = "EQ_HARDENED_MISSILE";
		"name" = "Imperial Naval Sidewinder";
		"roles" = "space_navy_patrol_escort";
		"scan_class" = "CLASS_MILITARY";
		"starboard_weapon_type" = "WEAPON_MILITARY_LASER";
	};
}

I followed the ships on their patrol routes and they were mostly uneventful (apart from an encounter with the Thargoids once, and an encounter with me when I got bored). For now, I just used this test script:

Code: Select all

this.name           = "Her Imperial Majesty's Space Navy OXP";
this.author         = "Pleb";
this.copyright      = "(C) 2014 Pleb.";
this.licence        = "CC-NC-by-SA 2.0";
this.description    = "This is a test script for testing out features for upcoming OXP.";
this.version        = "0.1";

"use strict";

/**** Functions ****/

this._populateNavyPatrols = function ()
{
	this._chanceOfPatrols = Math.random();
	if (system.isInterstellarSpace === true && this._chanceOfPatrols <= 0.2)
	{
		system.addShips("space_navy_patrol_leader", 2);
		system.addShips("thargoid", 6);
	}
	if (system.isInterstellarSpace === false && this._chanceOfPatrols <= 0.1)
	{
		system.addShipsToRoute("space_navy_patrol_leader", 1, Math.random(), "wp");
		system.addShipsToRoute("thargoid", 3, Math.random(), "pw");
		system.addShipsToRoute("space_navy_patrol_leader", 1, Math.random(), "ws");
		system.addShipsToRoute("thargoid", 3, Math.random(), "sw");
		system.addShipsToRoute("space_navy_patrol_leader", 1, Math.random(), "ps");
		system.addShipsToRoute("thargoid", 3, Math.random(), "sp");
	}
}

/**** Event handlers ****/

this.shipWillLaunchFromStation = function(station)
{
	this._populateNavyPatrols();
}

this.shipWillExitWitchspace  = function ()
{
	this._populateNavyPatrols();
}

This is a very basic test. There is a 20% chance it will create 2 patrols and 6 Thargoid ships if in interstellar space and there is a 10% chance it will create 3 patrols (1 on each route) and 9 Thargoid ships (3 on each route) if in a system.

Ideally the AI would need to be a bit more complicated and some small amount of dialogue would be nice. Also maybe limiting the number of patrols per system would be better, but I just did this for this test as it made it easier to find a patrol. I also added in more Thargoids as so to test the AI to make sure it only targets Thargoids. It completely ignored pirates trying to destroy other ships (even me!), and paid no attention to distress calls. Also the number of escorts for the Asp is quite high - perhaps a smaller number would be better.

[Cody]

Are those standard-spec Asps and Sidewinders? If so, how did they fare against the Thargoids?
As for numbers, six escorts sounds about right for an interstellar patrol - in-system, maybe less.

[Gimi]

It would be great if someone picks this up. I have some pretty strong views on how the Navy should work and behave, but I don't have the skills to compile the OXP. So if you can, please go for it pleb.

There are quite a few who have offered to contribute. I do believe that Griff gave me permission to use his models. Just need some good decals and an Imperial white colour. I have some ideas for more "navy" stuff like pennants on the shelf, but that can wait.

Most of my ideas for the direction I would like this OXP to take are summarized in the status posts. But if you pick it up it's yours to do what you like with. I will be glad to present my ideas though. I also have some offers for models for capitol ships, but I would suggest waiting with those. Sidewinders, Anacondas, Asps and the odd constrictor should be enough to get started.
Space station in a "secret" location would be great too.

To make it manageable I would suggest starting off with just compiling the ships to be used from Griff ships into a basic OXP and giving the ships some navy like behaviour. Then we can worry about the more complex stuff a little later.

Unfortunately RL is not treating my to a lot of spare time these days, but I'll contribute as much as I can if you pick it up.

[Cody]

<waves at the jefe> Sorry Pleb - I just read those ship-specs properly.

[Pleb]

Thanks Gimi, any and all help is most appreciated! The ideas you set in your previous posts are exactly how I would like this to unfold, which is why I chose Asps and Sidewinders to start off with. The artsy stuff likes textures and models I can't really do much about, as I've already stated, but the coding I can do. Although admittedly what I've just posted up is a very crude representation, I wanted input on how to make the AI more militarised. I've already removed the legal status stuff and responding to distress calls out of the AI, so that they can just focus on Thargoids. However it would be nice if the AI could stand out a bit more somehow...

Are those standard-spec Asps and Sidewinders? If so, how did they fare against the Thargoids?
As for numbers, six escorts sounds about right for an interstellar patrol - in-system, maybe less.

They did okay, but they may need to beefed up slightly - a couple of times (especially in interstellar space) they got wiped out pretty quick. This might be because I've made the Thargoid ship count higher. But I suppose it's more realistic if they are not unbeatable - the Thargoids have to win sometimes!

[Gimi]

Are those standard-spec Asps and Sidewinders? If so, how did they fare against the Thargoids?
As for numbers, six escorts sounds about right for an interstellar patrol - in-system, maybe less.

Here is the thing. If you look at the modern military there is no such thing as a fair fight. You might be able to jump them and take them by surprise, but if they attack the do so with overwhelming force. The military is also quite vengeful and they have a very long memory. For that reason my plan was that the ships would not be standard issue. In short, very good but not superior pilots flying some pretty awesome hardware. Weapons should be core game (no uber weapons), but more and better fitted on each unit.

Example would be:
Navy Sidewinder:
Beam or Military laser
4 hard head missiles.
Military shielding
Extra energy unit
and so on....

That is not unbeatable, but when you combine that with a coordinated attack of 4 sidewinders you are in trouble. And in there lies another rule. The military (navy) never ever goes at it alone.

[Cody]

A hazy memory stirs - something about 'broadsides'. I think performBroadside (or somesuch) was in trunk once, then removed. A Dev would know.

<nods at Gimi>

[Gimi]

The AI is really the key here in my view.
If you have four navy ships fighting two opponents, all four should focus on only one at the time, concentrating their fire. That should, in theory, increase the overall success rate of a mission.

It's pretty easy to write the rules in plain language, but I imagine implementing them is pretty hard.
AN example I have put up in one of my earlier posts:

CSP Behaviour.

Combat Space Patrol behaviour around Navy stations

1 CSP will allways patrol area between 2km and 10km from station. CSP allways patrol in pairs, but a CSP can consist of multiple pairs. See HIMSN Command & Control overview.

When player gets within 20km of the station, he is challenged with:
Cobra Mk III, You are entering a HIMSN restricted zone. If you have official dealings with the Navy please proceed, if not, turn away immediately.

If player comes within 10km of stations, CSP closes in to escorts player until docked or outside 15km from station. Additional CSP is launched from station.

If player at any time displays hostile intent, CSP attacks, additional CSP is launched from station.
If player retreats outside 25km of stations attacks cease, CSP assumes normal patrol.


Combat Space Patrol behaviour around Naval fleets and ships.

When player gets within 7 km of the fleet , he is challenged with:
Cobra Mk III, this is HIMSS Nemo, You are entering our safety zone, please turn away immediately.

If player is a fugitive and comes within 10km of stations, CSP attacks, additional CSP is launched from station.
If player at any time displays hostile intent, CSP attacks, additional CSP is launched from station.
If player retreats outside 30km of stations attacks cease, patrol is resumed

An unfinished rule set for an attack wing

Attack Wing (AW) Behaviour single target

AW will approach designated target on injectors to 10 km in formation
AW will perform simultanious attack in formation engaging same target.
AW will reform formation, and when within 1km of AW leader engage same target.
If attacked by missiles wing will fire ECM, disperse and reform formation outside range.
etc....

[Pleb]

Alerting the player when they are near a carrier or navy station is easy enough. Getting a patrol ship to intercept and escort the player to the station is trickier but not impossible. The groups attacking one ship at a time is fine, the crude AI script I have at the moment already does this. A different AI script can be used for patrol ships that are part of a carrier group and another one for patrol ships patrolling near a Navy station. However ships don't stay in formation during battles, it essentially becomes a massive dogfight. Once the battle is over, then the remaining ships regroup and form up again.

Speaking of Navy stations, placing them is something I was wondering about. They should be scattered throughout the 8 galaxies, and not in the same systems used by GN (so that if someone really wanted to they could run both OXPs without them interfering with each other). Also where would the Navy HQ go, is there somewhere in particular you were thinking?

In terms of where in a system, I think they should be on the far side of the planet, a little way out but not too far. Maybe have some patrol ships flying around, and a larger ship keeping guard in a stationary position?

[Cody]

Personally, I'd locate Navy stations well away from GalCop stations/planets - certainly farside, maybe even sunward/farside.
How many are you thinking of per chart, btw? Not too many, I hope. As for HQ - I have my own Oofictional ideas about that.

[Pleb]

1 Main HQ, not sure where though. And 7 or 8 Regional HQ's, one per galactic sector (galaxy), and again not sure where those should go. You say you have an idea for where the HQ should go?

[Cody]

The HQ of HIMSN is located in the Zaeredre system (noted for its vacuum karate) - so it was written.
As for sector bases, I've always liked the idea of zero-distance doubles (possibly interstellar) as locations.