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Hyperspave travel
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- CommRLock78
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Re: Hyperspave travel
"I'll laser the mark all while munching a fistful of popcorn." - Markgräf von Ededleen, Marquess, Brutal Great One, Assassins' Guild Exterminator
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- PhantorGorth
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Re: Hyperspave travel
In a old thread were we were discussing "Hyperspace: Time of flight" I came up with some handwavium physics backed up with a little bit of maths. You can read it here and here. Following my posts my suggestion of using 3/4 time for mid point misjump was used.
To summarise that idea was that you move into witchspace (hyperspace) inside a bubble of normal space charged with a field of tachyons which cause this bubble of space to accelarate at speeds faster than light. Your movement inside that bubble is nil. Special and General Relativity do not have a problem with a patch of space moving faster than light, it only has a problem with how fast you move inside that space. Therefore the physics of Hyperspace could be anything and could allow such bubbles to move faster than light. (The reason I suggested a bubble of normal space embedded in hyperspace is if you where in a region with different physics it is likely you couldn't exist.)
As to the point of how much time passes inside that bubble, that could be whatever we want. Either near instantaneous, the same time as the journey takes in normal space, somewhere in between or even longer than outside.
Now given that in the game it appears instantaneous could be because it is or because that part of the game reality is cut for game play reasons but is in fact meant to be a long period of time. Also if the original poster (jacksy) wants it to be x seconds for x hours or x light years this could be because it takes that long or because it is just time compression for game play reasons (instead of a cut). This idea is not contradictary with any possiblity other than it is actually instantaneous in the Ooniverse game reality.
Now I am not saying that my idea of a bubble should be treated as anything near canon but does go to show that there is enough wiggle room for whole range of Oolite physics possiblities.
To summarise that idea was that you move into witchspace (hyperspace) inside a bubble of normal space charged with a field of tachyons which cause this bubble of space to accelarate at speeds faster than light. Your movement inside that bubble is nil. Special and General Relativity do not have a problem with a patch of space moving faster than light, it only has a problem with how fast you move inside that space. Therefore the physics of Hyperspace could be anything and could allow such bubbles to move faster than light. (The reason I suggested a bubble of normal space embedded in hyperspace is if you where in a region with different physics it is likely you couldn't exist.)
As to the point of how much time passes inside that bubble, that could be whatever we want. Either near instantaneous, the same time as the journey takes in normal space, somewhere in between or even longer than outside.
Now given that in the game it appears instantaneous could be because it is or because that part of the game reality is cut for game play reasons but is in fact meant to be a long period of time. Also if the original poster (jacksy) wants it to be x seconds for x hours or x light years this could be because it takes that long or because it is just time compression for game play reasons (instead of a cut). This idea is not contradictary with any possiblity other than it is actually instantaneous in the Ooniverse game reality.
Now I am not saying that my idea of a bubble should be treated as anything near canon but does go to show that there is enough wiggle room for whole range of Oolite physics possiblities.
Chat and relax with other commanders in the [url=irc://irc.oftc.net/oolite]DS's Seedy Space Bar[/url]. The Coolest Bar in the Eight.
Phantor's OXPs: GalCop Rewards and Safe Docking
Phantor's OXPs: GalCop Rewards and Safe Docking
Re: Hyperspave travel
It is just my personal taste I am expressing , but I would like travel to feel a bit for more travellyPhantorGorth wrote:In a old thread were we were discussing "Hyperspace: Time of flight" I came up with some handwavium physics backed up with a little bit of maths. You can read it here and here. Following my posts my suggestion of using 3/4 time for mid point misjump was used.
To summarise that idea was that you move into witchspace (hyperspace) inside a bubble of normal space charged with a field of tachyons which cause this bubble of space to accelarate at speeds faster than light. Your movement inside that bubble is nil. Special and General Relativity do not have a problem with a patch of space moving faster than light, it only has a problem with how fast you move inside that space. Therefore the physics of Hyperspace could be anything and could allow such bubbles to move faster than light. (The reason I suggested a bubble of normal space embedded in hyperspace is if you where in a region with different physics it is likely you couldn't exist.)
As to the point of how much time passes inside that bubble, that could be whatever we want. Either near instantaneous, the same time as the journey takes in normal space, somewhere in between or even longer than outside.
Now given that in the game it appears instantaneous could be because it is or because that part of the game reality is cut for game play reasons but is in fact meant to be a long period of time. Also if the original poster (jacksy) wants it to be x seconds for x hours or x light years this could be because it takes that long or because it is just time compression for game play reasons (instead of a cut). This idea is not contradictary with any possiblity other than it is actually instantaneous in the Ooniverse game reality.
Now I am not saying that my idea of a bubble should be treated as anything near canon but does go to show that there is enough wiggle room for whole range of Oolite physics possiblities.
- CommRLock78
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Re: Hyperspave travel
Back to topic (sorry about the digression): it would be nice to have have something that gives a feel of more time passage - indeed travellyjacksy wrote:It is just my personal taste I am expressing , but I would like travel to feel a bit for more travelly
I suppose there are many ways to "skin the cat" in order explain things. The bubble idea you propose would be a good alternative to wormholes (which are probably intrinsically unstable anyways).PhantorGorth wrote:In a old thread were we were discussing "Hyperspace: Time of flight" I came up with some handwavium physics backed up with a little bit of maths. You can read it here and here. Following my posts my suggestion of using 3/4 time for mid point misjump was used.
To summarise that idea was that you move into witchspace (hyperspace) inside a bubble of normal space charged with a field of tachyons which cause this bubble of space to accelarate at speeds faster than light. Your movement inside that bubble is nil. Special and General Relativity do not have a problem with a patch of space moving faster than light, it only has a problem with how fast you move inside that space. Therefore the physics of Hyperspace could be anything and could allow such bubbles to move faster than light. (The reason I suggested a bubble of normal space embedded in hyperspace is if you where in a region with different physics it is likely you couldn't exist.)
As to the point of how much time passes inside that bubble, that could be whatever we want. Either near instantaneous, the same time as the journey takes in normal space, somewhere in between or even longer than outside.
Now given that in the game it appears instantaneous could be because it is or because that part of the game reality is cut for game play reasons but is in fact meant to be a long period of time. Also if the original poster (jacksy) wants it to be x seconds for x hours or x light years this could be because it takes that long or because it is just time compression for game play reasons (instead of a cut). This idea is not contradictary with any possiblity other than it is actually instantaneous in the Ooniverse game reality.
Now I am not saying that my idea of a bubble should be treated as anything near canon but does go to show that there is enough wiggle room for whole range of Oolite physics possiblities.
Now I just wonder how a faster than light bubble deals with observers within the bubble, even if they remain at rest within the bubble
"I'll laser the mark all while munching a fistful of popcorn." - Markgräf von Ededleen, Marquess, Brutal Great One, Assassins' Guild Exterminator
---------------------------
At the helm of the Caduceus Omega, 'Murderous Morrígan'
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At the helm of the Caduceus Omega, 'Murderous Morrígan'
- Rese249er
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Re: Hyperspave travel
Hah! Been playing Star Ocean: the Last Hope lately. FTL travel is very similar in that game, with a limited range and both wormhole and bubble techniques used...CommRLock78 wrote:...The bubble idea you propose would be a good alternative to wormholes (which are probably intrinsically unstable anyways).
Now I just wonder how a faster than light bubble deals with observers within the bubble, even if they remain at rest within the bubble
Hmm... Maybe an OXP that provides an upgrade to hyper-bubble style FTL with a corresponding bonus to service level when jumping would be nice.
But I digress; a hyper-bubble would probably end up looking a lot like a Star Trek warp-drive. If I recall my Star Trek handwavium correctly, that's basically how it's done.
Got all turned around, lost my nav connection... Where am I now?
- PhantorGorth
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Re: Hyperspave travel
Yes it would be a bit warp like but I am marrying it with Hyperspace as the place where making such a bubble could be easier (less energy expensive) than doing the same in our universe. I.e. we are pinching off a bit of space in our universe with your ship inside as you enter the "wormhole".Rese249er wrote:Hah! Been playing Star Ocean: the Last Hope lately. FTL travel is very similar in that game, with a limited range and both wormhole and bubble techniques used...CommRLock78 wrote:...The bubble idea you propose would be a good alternative to wormholes (which are probably intrinsically unstable anyways).
Now I just wonder how a faster than light bubble deals with observers within the bubble, even if they remain at rest within the bubble
Hmm... Maybe an OXP that provides an upgrade to hyper-bubble style FTL with a corresponding bonus to service level when jumping would be nice.
But I digress; a hyper-bubble would probably end up looking a lot like a Star Trek warp-drive. If I recall my Star Trek handwavium correctly, that's basically how it's done.
Chat and relax with other commanders in the [url=irc://irc.oftc.net/oolite]DS's Seedy Space Bar[/url]. The Coolest Bar in the Eight.
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- Rese249er
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Re: Hyperspave travel
Aha! Star Wars hyperdrive! Think about when the Millenium Falcon went into hyperdrive; stars stretched into lines overlaid on the stock witchspace wormhole.PhantorGorth wrote:Yes it would be a bit warp like but I am marrying it with Hyperspace as the place where making such a bubble could be easier (less energy expensive) than doing the same in our universe. I.e. we are pinching off a bit of space in our universe with your ship inside as you enter the "wormhole".
Got all turned around, lost my nav connection... Where am I now?
- PhantorGorth
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Re: Hyperspave travel
Oh I am with you there.jacksy wrote:It is just my personal taste I am expressing , but I would like travel to feel a bit for more travelly
Last edited by PhantorGorth on Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
Chat and relax with other commanders in the [url=irc://irc.oftc.net/oolite]DS's Seedy Space Bar[/url]. The Coolest Bar in the Eight.
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- PhantorGorth
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Re: Hyperspave travel
Eh, I was thinking the warping was happening inside witchspace (hyperspace) not in our universe so you wouldn't see stretched starlines as there aren't stars in hyperspace. (well unless there is - I will leave that for other people's imagination)Rese249er wrote:Aha! Star Wars hyperdrive! Think about when the Millenium Falcon went into hyperdrive; stars stretched into lines overlaid on the stock witchspace wormhole.PhantorGorth wrote:Yes it would be a bit warp like but I am marrying it with Hyperspace as the place where making such a bubble could be easier (less energy expensive) than doing the same in our universe. I.e. we are pinching off a bit of space in our universe with your ship inside as you enter the "wormhole".
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- Rese249er
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Re: Hyperspave travel
Way I see it, the pilot would perceive the stars stretching as the bubble's boundary of undistorted space was formed; normal, "external" space would appear to stretch as the bubble is
PhantorGorth wrote:pinching off a bit of space in our universe with your ship inside
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- PhantorGorth
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Re: Hyperspave travel
That would be likely if this was happening inside normal space but oolite has wormholes and witchspace.Rese249er wrote:Way I see it, the pilot would perceive the stars stretching as the bubble's boundary of undistorted space was formed; normal, "external" space would appear to stretch as the bubble isPhantorGorth wrote:pinching off a bit of space in our universe with your ship inside
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- Rese249er
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Re: Hyperspave travel
That would be why it coincides with the usual wormhole effect.
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- PhantorGorth
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Re: Hyperspave travel
Only I view it as the bubble forms as you enter the wormhole not before. After all before you enter the wormhole you are in normal space and not in need of a bubble. Once you enter the wormhole you no longer see the stars of normal space so you don't get the distorted view of the stars (whether it be stretching or compressing or whatever). So it's more a matter of timing/placing rather than principle.Rese249er wrote:That would be why it coincides with the usual wormhole effect.
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- Rese249er
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Re: Hyperspave travel
Exactly my point. Ya just rephrased it.PhantorGorth wrote:bubble forms as you enter the wormhole not before.Rese249er wrote:coincides with the usual wormhole effect.
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- PhantorGorth
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Re: Hyperspave travel
Well as you don't see stars inside the wormhole (as you look into hyperspace) you wouldn't see stars stretching then which is why I assumed you meant before you entered the wormhole.Rese249er wrote:Exactly my point. Ya just rephrased it.PhantorGorth wrote:bubble forms as you enter the wormhole not before.Rese249er wrote:coincides with the usual wormhole effect.
Mind this is really getting off topic now.
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