Shooting down missiles.

[Commander McLane]

If you just want to study a ship you need your target system, 'd', not a weapon.

Maybe you wanted to say 'r' here... ?

Yes. D'oh!

[Switeck]

'r' is one of the most basic key controls in Oolite. It turns your targeting system on and off (you know, the square box around a ship when you have it in your crosshairs, and the small arrow thing which points to its direction when you don't have it in your crossheads, and your target's name and legal status written next to the box). It's really one of the more basic functions of Oolite.

It's worth noting that the square box around a ship and the small arrow thing only appear after adding additional equipment to a most basic ship.

[Makara]

Hmmm - this thread got me to pondering recent missile experiences of mine. Never managed to shoot one down, but even in a "clean" ship (in this case Asp II - only equips being the humble Pulse Laser) a missile launch doesn't have to translate into "Press Space, Commander".

My basic technique has been to zoom the scanner all the way in to 5x; keep full throttle and full pitch (either up or down - needs to be varied as appropriate) and spiral like crazy (i.e. mainly full roll). Watch when the missiles seem to settle down in the scanner and then vary pitch and/or roll as it means they are more or less be matching your squirmings. If you try and keep them to the rear of your ship that will help a lot too.

Doing this I've been able to keep 3 missiles at bay in my naked ship, and when one has hit my ship at least survived. Now the Asp's higher-than-Cobby speed undoubtedly helped reduce the boom's effect a little bit, but it is smaller so should have suffered a bigger boom (would have exploded nearer to ship's centre).

Probably the biggest danger from missiles is the NPC speciality - the last minute, in-your-face release during a head-on pass. Best counter to this I have found is just to keep a rough track of how many missiles a ship has loosed (they don't tend to fire them if they aren't taking at least some punishment already ). If you are pouring shots into a ship that hasn't fired off any missiles then the head-on pass is a big danger. Break off early as you are inviting a sudden rocket powered surprise.

So with a vanilla missile setup, they work for NPCs pretty much as they do for the player - not an instant kill device, but they certainly keep the opponent distracted.

[snork]

I did it, I did it, and twice !

But both times it was accidentally - the first time I shot somebody else's missile that was about to hit my prey.
This makes me think it might be a new sport for me, saving other traders etc. from being hit by missiles.

The other time I was trying to shoot a closing-in ship (front-to-front) but missed it* and instead hit the missile the opponent was just launching.
Ha!
* (this parallax thing is heavy in a Moray Med)

[sdrubble]

... I was able to draft a cheat-sheet (which WORKED, btw) re firing the quirky Interceptor. I will proof-run this sheet against one or two more hardheads before posting it here... for the moment I can say that, after removing Target Autolock, the lock obtained thru Missile Analyser is indeed lost the moment you ARM the Interceptor pylon; the next step is then pressing '-' [minus], when the lock becomes 'live' again and the Interceptor can be launched immediately.

Ahhh, what a relief that 'swoosh' sound brings...

Ok, and here we go at last with the cheat-sheet (better late than never, of course)...

First of all, a few words about the testing environment:

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* Oolite 1.75.3 [yeah, I know I shouldn't].

* with Missile Analyser 1.2, so there's no need to manually [Shift+T] to lock an incoming missile - it's done automagically.

* without Target Autolock, which would otherwise undesirably lock other targets whenever the incoming missile becomes temporarily unlocked (this 'unlocking' is an unavoidable event in item 6. in the sequence below).

* with Missile Spoof (previous 2011.07.21 version). An experimental upgrade to current 2011.12.04 version is yet to be done, as it might interfere with this procedure due to some *possibly* increased effectiveness against some types of missiles...

* with ChupacabraHUD, 2011.10.26 version (which I'm not sure if it brings some specific behavior related to pylon icons being hidden sometimes).

[rant]

BTW, I should add that I've (finally !!!) given up on ChupacabraHUD due to its combat-unfriendliness. Even after tweaking ALL of its elements for increased transparency, and tweaking both GUIs for maximum info display (also with high transparency), and tolerating its frequent script hiccups on my low-spec netbook, the last two nails in its coffin were put in place last night. First one when I got TWO compasses superimposed (one within the other), and second one after fiddling with the totally counter-intuitive pylon cycling sequence (when frenetically trying to cycle to the desired pylon in an emergency and overshooting the intended PYLON for THREE consecutive passes). Doing that with 16 loaded pylons, and also wearing the wrong pair of glasses, just made me scream ENOUGH !!!

[/rant]

... and the cheat-sheet proper, tested thrice...

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1. read comms log: warning from Missile Analyser re incoming missile.

2. pause game and grab this cheat sheet...

2a. [automagic alternative, not yet implemented]: have either TAF Reset, or Missile Analyser itself, lower TAF to 0.06 at this point (unless some kind soul suggests an even better alternative of how to PAUSE the game from within a script)...

3. notice target reticle on incoming missile.

4. press 't' = 'missile target seek' = ARM [brings up the previously hidden pylon icons]

5. press 'y' = CYCLE pylons, multiple times [until the icon for the Interceptor Rack becomes RED OUTLINED in YELLOW]

6. press 't' = ARM Interceptor [icon for the Interceptor Rack becomes FULLY YELLOW - AND - target reticle DISAPPEARS]

7. press '-' [minus] (one or more times) = restores reticle over incoming missile - AND - icon for the Interceptor Rack becomes FULLY RED !!!

8. maneuver as required to FACE the reticle (so as to allow a straight-ahead flying path to the Interceptor)

9. press 'm' = FIRE Interceptor !!!

10. [OPTIONAL] - press '-' [minus] multiple times (just to be sure we didn't miss a SECOND incoming missile locked onto by Missile Analyser)

That's it folks - all comments, corrections and suggestions are welcome as usual...

Cheers

[CommonSenseOTB]

[Smivs]

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1. read comms log: warning from Missile Analyser re incoming missile.

2. pause game and grab this cheat sheet...

2a. [automagic alternative, not yet implemented]: have either TAF Reset, or Missile Analyser itself, lower TAF to 0.06 at this point (unless some kind soul suggests an even better alternative of how to PAUSE the game from within a script)...

3. notice target reticle on incoming missile.

4. press 't' = 'missile target seek' = ARM [brings up the previously hidden pylon icons]

5. press 'y' = CYCLE pylons, multiple times [until the icon for the Interceptor Rack becomes RED OUTLINED in YELLOW]

6. press 't' = ARM Interceptor [icon for the Interceptor Rack becomes FULLY YELLOW - AND - target reticle DISAPPEARS]

7. press '-' [minus] (one or more times) = restores reticle over incoming missile - AND - icon for the Interceptor Rack becomes FULLY RED !!!

8. maneuver as required to FACE the reticle (so as to allow a straight-ahead flying path to the Interceptor)

9. press 'm' = FIRE Interceptor !!!

10. [OPTIONAL] - press '-' [minus] multiple times (just to be sure we didn't miss a SECOND incoming missile locked onto by Missile Analyser)

I have to ask....WHY! What a load of faffing around. For God's sake man, just learn how to shoot things with the lasers

[sdrubble]

I have to ask....WHY! What a load of faffing around. For God's sake man, just learn how to shoot things with the lasers

Nice try Smivs... but after having stretched my hand-eye coordination abilities to the limit, I have no intention of pushing that any further.

I'm a big fan of putting technology to good use, in order to compensate for our physical limitations... so it's a pity that in 2084 the tech level hasn't advanced enough regarding a fully automated missile defense, forcing us (me) to devise such involved manual procedures.

On another front, however, tech levels DID advance enough, such as the human-awareness-and-reaction-enhancement implants which allow informed Commanders to quickly proceed with such manual procedures... the implants I use are more widely known by the cryptic acronym of 'TAF=0.25'. So all's well in the end.

And notwithstanding all of that, it would be really interesting to watch some videos of a real Master in action, shooting down I-Missiles and assorted Nexus ordnance with his lasers... Be welcome to provide any links you might have.

Cheers

[Smivs]

I'm a big fan of putting technology to good use, in order to compensate for our physical limitations... so it's a pity that in 2084 the tech level hasn't advanced enough regarding a fully automated missile defense, forcing us (me) to devise such involved manual procedures.

Ha! It wouldn't be much fun if you just had to press a button and everything was done for you, would it? The whole point of a game like Oolite is that you have fun developing the necessary skills, and then using them.

And notwithstanding all of that, it would be really interesting to watch some videos of a real Master in action, shooting down I-Missiles and assorted Nexus ordnance with his lasers.

Well, firstly I have to point out that you have added all these fancy weapons to your game, so you can hardly complain when you find them hard to deal with. For what it's worth my game includes no OXP weapons, just lots of toughened-up baddies with military grade lasers and shields, and hardheads, and I usually deal with them with lasers alone (and liberal doses of fuel injectors). I usually have empty pylons...missiles are a waste of money as standard ones get ECM'd and hardheads just chase the baddies away for a while...they soon return and you're back to square one. That's why I've learned to use the lasers properly. Believe me there's no buzz like the one you get taking on and beating an 'overwhelming' force at close quarters with lasers alone. It's what this game is all about.
As for video's, well as soon as I get screencasting working on my computer I'll post some 'real' dogfights

[maik]

t's a pity that in 2084 the tech level hasn't advanced enough regarding a fully automated missile defense

But it has! It's just that some defense contractor came up with better missile technology again...

[sdrubble]

The whole point of a game like Oolite is that you have fun developing the necessary skills, and then using them.

... and just like there's a dozen ways to skin a cat, there are also multiple ways to deal with baddies. So using lasers is one of such skills, and using missiles in the 'proper' way is a different skill... both of them achieve the same purpose, but appeal to a different kind of mindset.

... you have added all these fancy weapons to your game, so you can hardly complain when you find them hard to deal with.

Well, I didn't actually 'complain', did I ? My purpose in this thread was discussing a particular strategy I was trying to improve... something I actually accomplished and shared with the Ooniverse, even if it might end up being of low appeal to the majority of trigger-happy Commanders. Sorta expected, BTW.

... there's no buzz like the one you get taking on and beating an 'overwhelming' force at close quarters with lasers alone.

Mmmm... not being a native speaker myself, and having a slight hint of what you did mean, I'm taking one of the definitions of 'buzz' that I found around the Net - "a feeling of exhilaration or pleasant intoxication". Which I'd rather express myself as ''adrenalin rush", and which is something I have purposefully removed (mostly) from my life, starting two or three decades ago.

IIRC, DaddyHoggy is the one who devised a playstyle where he strives not to kill anyone... as to myself, and in a similarly offbeat path, I DO kill people ships, and a lot of them indeed - but I strive to have most of my kills served COLD, as in the proverbial revenge dish. And most (if not all) of them happen in slow motion, for greater enjoyment (reduced TAF). So in this particular way of playing, missiles and fancy weapons (for BOTH sides) do have an important role. It's a different kind of enjoyment, mind you.

I DO use lasers, when facing up to 3 or 4 baddies. Most enemy forces which are more 'overwhelming' than that are dealt with cold blood, careful planning (that's what the PAUSE key is meant for), and of course equally overwhelming weaponry.

Cheers

[Smivs]

Yeah, I didn't mean to sound negative (although I guess I did). As you say, everybody plays a different game, and that's a good thing. It's testament to the basic game that such disparate styles both work for the people using them.

[Switeck]

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6. press 't' = ARM Interceptor [icon for the Interceptor Rack becomes FULLY YELLOW - AND - target reticle DISAPPEARS]

I am going to take the position that this is undesired behavior and even go as far as to say this is a bug.
Arming your missile should not cause the target reticule to disappear.

It's annoying enough that the target reticule disappears (or at least changes targets) when you FIRE a missile.
(To me, even that is... "but why?")

[Commander McLane]

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6. press 't' = ARM Interceptor [icon for the Interceptor Rack becomes FULLY YELLOW - AND - target reticle DISAPPEARS]

I am going to take the position that this is undesired behavior and even go as far as to say this is a bug.
Arming your missile should not cause the target reticule to disappear.

It's annoying enough that the target reticule disappears (or at least changes targets) when you FIRE a missile.
(To me, even that is... "but why?")

It's not a bug, but the result of not sticking to the correct procedure. If you first press 'R' to lock your target, then 'T' to lock your missile on your target, and finally 'M' to fire the missile, the target reticle does not disappear.

Only if you skip the first part of the process by not pressing 'R', the reticle disappears after firing the missile. That is because you hadn't loaded the target in your target memory in the first place. Therefore there is no target lock, and no target is marked with a reticle. Only as long as your missile was active your missile lock was displayed. As soon as the missile is fired it isn't locked anymore, and only the target which you have a target lock on would be marked. But you had no target lock on any target. If you had locked your target with 'R' first, the target lock would still exist and your target would correctly be marked with a reticle.

Or in other words: 'R' puts a target in your ship's target memory. It stays there until it is replaced with another target.

'T' puts a target in your current missile's target memory. As soon as you fire the missile, your ship doesn't know about it anymore.

[sdrubble]

If you first press 'R' to lock your target, then 'T' to lock your missile on your target, and finally 'M' to fire the missile, the target reticle does not disappear.

Only if you skip the first part of the process by not pressing 'R', the reticle disappears after firing the missile. That is because you hadn't loaded the target in your target memory in the first place. Therefore there is no target lock, and no target is marked with a reticle. Only as long as your missile was active your missile lock was displayed. As soon as the missile is fired it isn't locked anymore, and only the target which you have a target lock on would be marked. But you had no target lock on any target. If you had locked your target with 'R' first, the target lock would still exist and your target would correctly be marked with a reticle.

Or in other words: 'R' puts a target in your ship's target memory. It stays there until it is replaced with another target.

'T' puts a target in your current missile's target memory. As soon as you fire the missile, your ship doesn't know about it anymore.

Thanx McLane for the detailed explanation.

But when our target is an incoming missile, so that we'll start by using 'Shift+T' instead of 'R', what would the correct key sequence be ?