Wargame discussion

[DaddyHoggy]

I built an entire Battalion from scratch in Battletech, 118 Mechs plus tanks and aero - all Dragons (I was doing Wado Ryu at the time was when into my Japanese Psyche) no Mercenaries - hand painted them all, play sheets with MechWarrior created pilots and back stories (this is where my love of the Grasshopper came from) - all set in the background of the time frame "Heir to the Dragon" runs for. Many of the mechs had custom stats (because many of them had ad hoc repairs due to poor supply chains).

I ran the campaign for two years - we'd roleplay until we got to a fight and then we'd break out the Hexboards and custom scenery and I'd kick my company out while I set up the starting conditions of the initial engagement. My players took it very seriously - nobody wanted to die - nobody wanted a mech with a limp or a broken A/C 10 or a randomly jamming LRM20... because they weren't guaranteed a repair (weapons or armour - "God I was a bastard!") - but they all felt that their little troop of four Mechs was part of the Battalion at all times - and occasionally they'd get guest players for the battles and access to some of those Big Guns (literally).

Oh, I could cry, them were the days.

Hope my ex-brother in law kept all my stuff - even if I never see it again - the thought it might have been slung out... <shudders>

[Matti]

I built an entire Battalion from scratch in Battletech, 118 Mechs plus tanks and aero

'Mech battalion is 36 models

There are always new products coming out. One of the greatest of late are two HexPacks. Each comes with full sized thick cardboard map (two-sided) and bunch of counters that can be placed on the maps. I haven't had opportunity for using those yet, but I'm looking forward to it. Finally I have something to put on empty pavement of CityTech map

[DaddyHoggy]

I built an entire Battalion from scratch in Battletech, 118 Mechs plus tanks and aero

'Mech battalion is 36 models

There are always new products coming out. One of the greatest of late are two HexPacks. Each comes with full sized thick cardboard map (two-sided) and bunch of counters that can be placed on the maps. I haven't had opportunity for using those yet, but I'm looking forward to it. Finally I have something to put on empty pavement of CityTech map

Apologies - I blame the drugs - I concatenated two phrases in my brain into an incomplete and inaccurate statement on the page. I built 3 Battalions + a 10 mech mobile headquarters (of my own design) with drop ship protection duties (all jump capable mechs) - from the 3 Battalions, one was selected for a particular Mechwarrior campaign - but I could field 200 pieces if necessary if I included Aerotech and tank support.

We played a lot of CityTech - people stop laughing at a 30 jump capable (2/3 movement) mech with an AC10 when it's just blown your head off at close quarters - I GM'd with proper LOS rules - so the players had LOS and Fog-of-war on their own maps and I kept track of all the pieces on smaller printed map out-of-sight - made for some very tense battles.

[Matti]

We played a lot of CityTech - people stop laughing at a 30 jump capable (2/3 movement) mech with an AC10 when it's just blown your head off at close quarters - I GM'd with proper LOS rules - so the players had LOS and Fog-of-war on their own maps and I kept track of all the pieces on smaller printed map out-of-sight - made for some very tense battles.

Double Blind rules. How long did it take to play one whole turn by all players? How many models on the map?

For me it takes 20-30 minutes to play one turn with 8 'Mechs (total) with rules of Introductory Rulebook alone. Longer even when crits happen and I need check rules for how damaged leg actuator affects to movement and PSRs.

[RyanHoots]

Wargaming looks like fun. I guess it would be similar to Age of Empires (I come from a history of playing Microsoft games, but Oolite put a stop to that), but the offline factor makes the game a little better. Maybe I could wargame against my brother using Lego solders!

[DaddyHoggy]

We played a lot of CityTech - people stop laughing at a 30 jump capable (2/3 movement) mech with an AC10 when it's just blown your head off at close quarters - I GM'd with proper LOS rules - so the players had LOS and Fog-of-war on their own maps and I kept track of all the pieces on smaller printed map out-of-sight - made for some very tense battles.

Double Blind rules. How long did it take to play one whole turn by all players? How many models on the map?

For me it takes 20-30 minutes to play one turn with 8 'Mechs (total) with rules of Introductory Rulebook alone. Longer even when crits happen and I need check rules for how damaged leg actuator affects to movement and PSRs.

My players made up a single troop of four mechs, and I never had more than six enemy mechs on my board at any one time - even if there were more in the battle. I wrote a program for my Amiga that ran in the background that kept track of movement modifiers and the like for all the mechs (this was done originally so players couldn't accidentally forget to mark off any criticals at the end of a battle...

All in all we never took longer than 45 minutes to an hour per move (both sides) - ah, yes, the programme on the Amiga also ran a clock - which switched between my time and their time and they knew I liked to add stuff like reinforcements or Aerotech raids if they were taking too long. We'd get probably six moves in a night - some incursions could take three weeks to play out - but they felt like they'd earned their victories (when they had them) - sometimes "not dead" was a victory. (I tried to play an intelligent enemy - again with Mechwarrior rolled pilots (another computer program for that too!) so the enemy would often withdraw when it was beaten (to return to fight them at a later date!) although it might take my players a turn or two to realise they'd gone...)

[Matti]

Wargaming looks like fun. I guess it would be similar to Age of Empires

Wargaming, as it is meant on this topic, are those games that are played by turns with game miniature models (or counters) on the table, map or gameboard. It is not all clear to me whether or not Chess and Battleship qualify as wargames or not, but I use those as examples here. Better yet: turn based computer wargames. Analogical versions aren't much different, but if fog of war between players is desired (one player doesn't know locations of other player's forces until those are seen by his own), it takes double set of gaming hardware and neutral(?) game master.

What are good wargames for noob (like RyanHoots) to try out? DaddyHoggy, do you have any recommendations to offer? My recommendation: find nearest game store and ask is it possible to try games in there. In Oulu is one game store where Warhammer games (Fantasy Battles and 40,000) can be played with tutor of employees and for free. In addition those games are played every wednesday where players take their own model armies with them (cost hundreds of €uros and more), and store offers plenty of books and models for general use. Game events and conventions are something to make a visit. You can ask about those in the game store. In Oulu is event called Maracon held three times in year which lasts most of the weekend (from friday to sunday).

[DaddyHoggy]

For fun and quick I'd actually start with Space Hulk, introduces the concepts of turn-based, luck, dice rolls, planning ahead - that way if you like the genre and the style you can move up to Warhammer 40K and use your Space Marines in that game too.

Battletech is of course a classic and it grows with you - but would I start with it... probably not.

I used to play a nice WWII one but I can't remember the name of it at the moment...

[Disembodied]

Armati rules are quick and straightforward, and good for Ancients through to Renaissance. All figure wargaming though is complicated to a degree, in that they're trying to recreate a fairly complicated process without too much abstraction.

There are some counter-based games, like 3W's Ancients series, that are quite quick and small and cheap. Actually, a good basic introduction to the whole thing might be H.G. Wells's Little Wars. Worth a read – it's short and entertaining, and you can find it, with illustrations, on Project Gutenberg. It's grown men playing with toy soldiers, which in essence is what figure wargaming is!

[Matti]

Battletech is of course a classic and it grows with you - but would I start with it... probably not.

I started with that! Actually BattleTech is fair for beginners: Introductory Box Set costs less than Warhammer equivalents and comes with 24-26 'Mech models. Becouse WYSIWYG isn't requirement, those models can be used along with any desired record sheets (model Clint can be used with Wolfhound's record sheet). Game site offers lots of information about the universe, free rules (same ones that come with Introductory Box), free scenarios... LOTS free stuff. So check out the free rules and sourcebooks (PDFs), and if those seem to be to your liking, then buy box set and start playing.

Straight links to rule PDFs:
BattleTech Quick-Start Rules
Oversimplified versions of the standard rules.

Introductory Rulebook
Standard rules for BattleMechs and their equipment in year 3025. Includes BattleMech construction. Very limited selection of weapons and equipment, and no buildings, but otherwise gameplay rules are the same as in over 300 pages thick Total Warfare standard rules set.

[DaddyHoggy]

Battletech is of course a classic and it grows with you - but would I start with it... probably not.

I started with that! Actually BattleTech is fair for beginners: Introductory Box Set costs less than Warhammer equivalents and comes with 24-26 'Mech models. Becouse WYSIWYG isn't requirement, those models can be used along with any desired record sheets (model Clint can be used with Wolfhound's record sheet). Game site offers lots of information about the universe, free rules (same ones that come with Introductory Box), free scenarios... LOTS free stuff. So check out the free rules and sourcebooks (PDFs), and if those seem to be to your liking, then buy box set and start playing.

Straight links to rule PDFs:
BattleTech Quick-Start Rules
Oversimplified versions of the standard rules.

Introductory Rulebook
Standard rules for BattleMechs and their equipment in year 3025. Includes BattleMech construction. Very limited selection of weapons and equipment, and no buildings, but otherwise gameplay rules are the same as in over 300 pages thick Total Warfare standard rules set.

Clearly the basics have improved a lot since my day (ah, the internet...) - and I have to say I was already a seasoned war gamer when I started with Battletech, so only got the basic pack after I'd started playing to get the plastic models to supplement my ever growing list of metal figures - I remember spending a lot of time, scraping and milliputting those plastic models before painting them!

[Dragonfire]

My wingman programmer and I actually made our own wargame out of K'Nex, in which each side has a working battle machine model. Our movement and use of equipment functions is limited (one move for one set length of movement of use of function, three moves per turn). The end goal is to knock over the other's control tower (behind a wall). We have a ball shooter, a catapult, a dart shooter, a self-propelled battering ram...

It is actually really quite fun.

[DaddyHoggy]

Sounds like one of the first "wargames" I played as a kid "Crossbows and Catapults"

[Dragonfire]

It is amazing the amount of strategy it takes, tho.

I like Risk, by the way.

[Cody]

I like Risk, by the way.

If you like a board game like Risk, you should try 4000 AD.