GAME CHANGER - A little overlooked law of aerospace science.

[Dragonfire]

Oh, they can use whatever ship they want. They just have an easier time if they have a Wyvern.

[JensAyton]

I haven't tried it yet, but I think it should be possible to give a subentity a ship script of its own. That would make it even easier. You wouldn't need a timer, but just a shipDied in the subentity's script, and then this.ship.owner.explode().

Last time I tried something like that it didn't work, but that was a while ago.

If it does work now then yes I agree it's a much simpler way, but I'm not sure you can hang separate scripts off sub-entities. Hence why I suggested the rather less streamlined method instead.

I haven’t tried setting scripts on subentities, but even if it doesn’t work they should have the default script, and you can add handlers to that from the parent ship’s script:

Code: Select all

var mother = this.ship;
var sub = this.ship.subentities[0];
sub.script.shipDied = function () { mother.explode(); }

[Okti]

I haven’t tried setting scripts on subentities, but even if it doesn’t work they should have the default script, and you can add handlers to that from the parent ship’s script:
Code:
var mother = this.ship;
var sub = this.ship.subentities[0];
sub.script.shipDied = function () { mother.explode(); }

The only thing, can we be sure about player actually shooting the subentities, if it is for a NPC. I mean is there a way the subentities can be aimed individually by the player?

Sorry about turning your thread into something else Dragonfire, but the outcome may be quite usefull

[DaddyHoggy]

I haven’t tried setting scripts on subentities, but even if it doesn’t work they should have the default script, and you can add handlers to that from the parent ship’s script:
Code:
var mother = this.ship;
var sub = this.ship.subentities[0];
sub.script.shipDied = function () { mother.explode(); }

The only thing, can we be sure about player actually shooting the subentities, if it is for a NPC. I mean is there a way the subentities can be aimed individually by the player?

Sorry about turning your thread into something else Dragonfire, but the outcome may be quite usefull

A moderator can always snap the digression but useful bit off and stick it somewhere else if need be! (I'm just surprised I accidentally started such a stimulating conversation! I was just looking for a way to balance out OTT uberness!)

[Dragonfire]

I haven’t tried setting scripts on subentities, but even if it doesn’t work they should have the default script, and you can add handlers to that from the parent ship’s script:
Code:
var mother = this.ship;
var sub = this.ship.subentities[0];
sub.script.shipDied = function () { mother.explode(); }

The only thing, can we be sure about player actually shooting the subentities, if it is for a NPC. I mean is there a way the subentities can be aimed individually by the player?

Sorry about turning your thread into something else Dragonfire, but the outcome may be quite usefull

No, that's quite okay Okti....it changed subjects about five times now. Anyway, we're still on topic --somewhat--, we're talking about game dynamics. To heck with the stupid subject line.

[greenseng]

A few questions here:

How does one define an uber-ship?

For example: Its' max speed. What would it be?
Its max cargo. What would that be?

The combination of speed and cargo. How does that work?
Faster ship. Bigger engines. Less place for cargo?
Heavier ship (bigger ship) - slower ship?
How do people look at the balance here?

How many pylons? 16 is possible. More than 12 may interfere with some HUD-s information. (I have only tested two HUD-s).
Even if the level of interference is rather low.

But pylons are rumoured to steal some room.

Can probably come up with a tons of questions like these but...

And about the coding...
There are two types of coding.
One is used for the built in ships.
Why that type?
Is it the best?
Or...
Maybe the same problem that I have.
Cutting myself on tags, all the time. Looses a lot of blood.

[Switeck]

Even if the game comes nowhere close to real physics, the game's rules must be self-consistent.
"This ship is a lot faster than others just because I say so!" ...is a serious game balance faux pas and a poor plot device.
Otherwise, we're playing a game of "a wizard did it!"

[Dragonfire]

And yet, many of us actually want those super fast ships. We want to have the most incredible ships in the universe. Thus why the Wyvern ship that I am working on is going to have multiple versions.

[Capt. Murphy]

Interesting debate -

McClane - I don't think you should hold back on updating Cataclysm or working on other mission releases just because an uber ship is available to download. In fact I sincerely hope you do update Cataclysm because as someone who has played Elite since it's first incarnation, it's the mission OXP's that in my opinion continue to give the game legs, and I'm looking forward to playing it when my Commander has got enough kills under his belt.

Noisy boards does not necessarily mean that everyone playing Oolite (many of whom presumably are not regular visitors to the board) will be downloading it to fly or if they do it may well be to have the challenge of taking on the NPC version in a fight.

For me I'm not particularly interested in downloading ships for better stats, more for the appreciation of the art and design that goes towards the eye candy, and in admiration for the scripting that goes towards some of the existing uber ships special features (I'm thinking Vortex and Caddy here). Plus I enjoy taking out NPC Vortex's and Caddy's with my Cobra III.

I don't tend to go for weapon OXP's either - other than the railgun. I like the idea that when the high tech fails (lasers overheating) there is a low tech fall back, and enjoy imagining the surprise on my enemies faces when I carry on firing something at them when the military laser has overheated.

Re the player uber ship with the Achilles heel concept, rather than instant death how about a severe loss of capability/functionality triggered by loss of the little subentity (or dummy damagable equipment). I can imagine Dragonfire's 'special engine wiring' might be particularly vulnerable. Script it so a lucky hit once the Wyvern's shields are down wrecks it's engines.... or jams them on full and disables the docking computer...... . Enjoy your speed then boyracer........... (no offence meant Dragonfire - read friendly dig....).

I can also think of another OXP idea along the lines of Tough Guys to help with game balance....I haven't looked at what Tough Guys does but understand that the NPC strength depends on player choice as to which module to download....how about an OXP that looks at the player's ship capabilities and equipment, and on the fly upgrades NPC's to a level so they have some chance and the game remains a challenge.

[Commander McLane]

The only thing, can we be sure about player actually shooting the subentities, if it is for a NPC. I mean is there a way the subentities can be aimed individually by the player?

I take it you have never indulged in the fun of stripping a  DW-Cobra of its subentities one by one? I would seriously recommend it, it's a beautiful experience. And for all its beautiful details, keep in mind that it's a pre-shader ship. Just subentities and their textures. This is what Oolite can look and feel like on the simplest computers. Mind-blowing!

[m4r35n357]

Hmm, did this wiki page backfire? It's part of the game, if you want it . . . peace

[Smivs]

Hmm, did this wiki page backfire? It's part of the game, if you want it . . . peace

If anyone is tempted to follow this up, or to make any OXP ship come to that, I would suggest that they use openstep instead of XML for the property lists. Most OXPs and indeed the core game use openstep, which is a much easier to use (and read) format than XML.
Take a look at the plists in the core game for a good example how this is applied.

[Bugbear]

Now moving from one controversial topic to another...if we can't control (or it is difficult/unfeasable to control) what ship a player uses for a mission, why not concoct a ship scoring system.

Players with uber ships will be penalised more than those with more reasonable ships.

The scoring system would depend on the objectives of the mission writer.

The controversy comes from: how do we score ships?

[Capt. Murphy]

I don't think that's controversial, just even more to think about.

Time limits to get to certain points could be tailored for the player ships speed.

Shipdata.plists for NPC's with mission specific roles could contain easy,moderate and hard versions of each role, and the mission script could select which level to use depending on certain stats of the player ship.

Base it on the core ships and look at say cargo, max energy, recharge rate, speed and pylons. If an OXP player ship has 2 or more in excess of any of the core ships, with the rest in 'range' then they get hard NPC's etc....

[Bugbear]

I don't think that's controversial, just even more to think about.

Time limits to get to certain points could be tailored for the player ships speed.

Shipdata.plists for NPC's with mission specific roles could contain easy,moderate and hard versions of each role, and the mission script could select which level to use depending on certain stats of the player ship.

Base it on the core ships and look at say cargo, max energy, recharge rate, speed and pylons. If an OXP player ship has 2 or more in excess of any of the core ships, with the rest in 'range' then they get hard NPC's etc....

And so we restore balance again...