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[Darkbee]

Any discussion about the US banking system is null and void; we still use paper checks (cheques), which I thought were outlawed in most other western civilizations in about 1683. And don't get me started on ATM charges, and also getting $0.01 interest on a Checking account (no lie), for which I have to pay a monthly service charge for the privilege of. If they just did away with that stupid $0.01 interest they could save themselves a fortune and not have to charge everybody for the privilege to breathe oxygen.

It's ironic but as "advanced" as the US is our banking system sucks @$$ (technical term).

[Ganelon]

So any thoughts on what the game's "credits" are based on?

Are they basically a "fiat dollar" issued by GalCop? Based on some standard like gold or platinum? Maybe based on an approximation of 1/10th of a unit of fuel or something?

One credit = one gram of handwavium?

It may not currently matter much, but with some of the political considerations in the timeline it is not inconceivable that erosion of the monetary standard of "credits" might vary according to type of system.

For example, if the Oolite "credit" is at present a "fiat dollar" of GalCop (meaning a unit used as money that only has any worth because GalCop says so), one might expect prices in an Anarchy or Feudal system to appear high because they would have no reason to trust the GalCop credits. It isn't the local barter token of the Feudal system, and it isn't gold, platinum, gems or other items of durable worth or immediate usefulness that might be desirable for trade in an Anarchy system. They might view that GalCop could cancel the value of any creds they had on a moment's whim, and so wouldn't allow as much for them on the local markets.

[Disembodied]

I've always thought that the Credit was purely GalCop-only. Individual planets would use their own currencies.

Prices are only affected by planetary economic systems, not by political regimes (or lack thereof ). GalCop must control the trade between the station and the planet, either directly or through selling licences to transporter and shuttle pilots to take goods down and bring them up. They limit trade in any individual item to a maximum of 127 tonnes (or kilos, or grammes) per transaction to stop sudden price fluctuations – again, except under special licence, i.e. the cargo contract system. It's very much a managed economy.

Pirates, on the other hand, I've always suspected of running on a semi-barter economy, probably mainly based around precious metals and gemstones for convenience (a gram is so much easier to carry in your pocket than a tonne).

[DaddyHoggy]

So any thoughts on what the game's "credits" are based on?

Are they basically a "fiat dollar" issued by GalCop? Based on some standard like gold or platinum? Maybe based on an approximation of 1/10th of a unit of fuel or something?

One credit = one gram of handwavium?

It may not currently matter much, but with some of the political considerations in the timeline it is not inconceivable that erosion of the monetary standard of "credits" might vary according to type of system.

For example, if the Oolite "credit" is at present a "fiat dollar" of GalCop (meaning a unit used as money that only has any worth because GalCop says so), one might expect prices in an Anarchy or Feudal system to appear high because they would have no reason to trust the GalCop credits. It isn't the local barter token of the Feudal system, and it isn't gold, platinum, gems or other items of durable worth or immediate usefulness that might be desirable for trade in an Anarchy system. They might view that GalCop could cancel the value of any creds they had on a moment's whim, and so wouldn't allow as much for them on the local markets.

Gold and Platinum are the easiest to work on.

1kg of Gold in Oolite costs on average 37.2 Cr

According to Google Gold Price in RL(tm) is right now US$41.43 per gram.

Therefore 1kg of gold is worth US$41430

37.2Cr = US$41430 therefore 1Cr = US$1114

[Cody]

I think that makes the base price for a Cobra Mk III $167,100,000.

[Ganelon]

Probably about right, considering the cost would have dropped a lot due to mass production.

The Space Shuttle Endeavour, the orbiter built to replace the Space Shuttle Challenger, cost approximately $1.7 billion.

(from the NASA website)

A new Peterbilt semi truck costs about 120,000.

A Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet costs about 60 million.

So 170 mil for a spaceship designed for exploration, trade, and fighting sounds like a good deal. (Yeah, I know you said 167 mil, but you'd want the extra to iron-ass it a bit. LOL)

The price wouldn't go that low until spaceships are in mass production, though. Right now they're pretty much all one-offs, and that always is going to be a bit more expensive.

[Cody]

Now... if we can just work out exactly what a cargo TC is.
I think several threads have already tried to cover that one... was there ever an answer?

[maik]

Gold and Platinum are the easiest to work on.

1kg of Gold in Oolite costs on average 37.2 Cr

According to Google Gold Price in RL(tm) is right now US$41.43 per gram.

Therefore 1kg of gold is worth US$41430

37.2Cr = US$41430 therefore 1Cr = US$1114

Mmmh, you are comparing today's gold price on earth to tomorrow's gold price in the ooniverse.

To improve the power of that handwavium you would need to take inflation into account (more than 1000 years of it if I recall the timeline for oolite correctly) as well as the availability of gold across the ooniverse.

Considering rare metals (and other stuff) are expensive because they are rare on earth doesn't mean they are rare elsewhere. Just look at the star that is one big diamond!

Or just apply more handwavium and declare that the the scarcity of gold across the ooniverse just happens to cancel the effect of the expected inflation

Then again, everybody and their dog are flying around in spaceships although they don't seem to do too well economically (going by the fan fiction), so $170M for a Cobra Mk3 seems way over the top. It feels like it shouldn't cost more than a high end car today.

[DaddyHoggy]

Now... if we can just work out exactly what a cargo TC is.
I think several threads have already tried to cover that one... was there ever an answer?

The answer is: There is no answer.

I liked "Trade Cannisters" - like RL(tm) ISO containers on ships - which then fit nicely on to flat beds of articulated lorries, etc, fully standardised.

Weight actually varies based on contents - so you're not buying a weight of food/liquor etc but a standardised volume.

<meerkat_mode>Simples</meerkat_mode>

[Cmdr James]

Weight varies? Surely you mean the mass varies

[DaddyHoggy]

Weight varies? Surely you mean the mass varies

I put that in deliberately, just to see if people were paying attention - well done - collect one gold star and advance one square.

[Ganelon]

Yeah, the problem is that different sorts of cargo have different densities. I usually think of it as a metric ton, since I seem to lose a unit of cargo space if I have about 1,000 kilos total of gold and platinum in the safe.

Both of those materials are dense and don't take up a lot of space. So I would *guess* that the game considers cargo by weight rather than how much space it takes up. If the game considered a cargo unit to be how much space a ton of wheat takes up, then a ton of gold would only be a fraction of a ton, maybe 1/10th or so.

That the game seems to calculate it entirely by weight maybe isn't perfect, but it's good enough most days and I doubt they were worried about realism/accuracy beyond "reasonable" back when Elite was written.

It makes enough sense, since the cargo capacity is then how much weight the ship can haul and still manoeuvre properly.

EDIT: PS- I used the term weight deliberately since we are on Earth and by the formula w = mg, the two terms are approximately equivalent on the Earth's surface. Mass might be technically more correct, but for some people it also might seem less clear.

[Cmdr James]

I think its a bit of both.
Mass has an impact on momentum and the "agility" of the ship, or put another way, a huge heavy cargo will kill you if you slam the breaks on.
Size is also relevant. It isnt practical to haul the same mass of ping-pong balls as you can of alloys.

The most sensible interpretation seems to be a measure of volume which is roughly a tonne, perhaps the volume of one tonne of water (a fluid tonne?).

It is not clear to me if all containers are sold full (ie different mass of different goods), or if you get one tonne of commodity which may not completely fill the container.

For what its worth, the game simply counts containers, and for huge amounts of g and kg commodities it will start to allocate containers as it seems odd to claim there is a safe in the cockpit with a million kg of stuff in

[Commander McLane]

One million kg = 1 ton? Surely you mean 1,000.

[Cmdr James]

I didnt intend to give an equivalence, just to give an example of a big amount that you wouldnt have in the glove compartment :p

but yes, you are right.

Oddly though, I think kg is the SI unit for mass, so a million kilos should be expressed as 1Mkg shouldnt it? that is just so odd it makes me feel weird thinking about it.