Additional galaxies

[Cmdr James]

Generally, core oolite doesnt do anything that conflicts with canon. OXPs may, and often do so.

The rule is not hard and fast, but I wouldnt see oolite having more than 8 charts. If an OXP does so then thats more likely.

[Lestradae]

The rule is not hard and fast, but I wouldnt see oolite having more than 8 charts. If an OXP does so then thats more likely.

I would agree completely on what you say here; actually, that is what I suggested.

The problem is that an oxp can only create additional galaxies if the possibility exists, in the core game, that galaxy_number and galaxy_seed become read/writeable.

Which is what I requested. If that is not possible, oxps can't make convincing new sectors with new chart distributions, names etc.

As far as I understood A_C, it basically boils down to finding someone who can and wants to implement a feasible option for that into the code. While mentioning that his own take (he created a chart 9 at some point himself) was some sort of quick hack that couldn't be such an integrated option.

So, if it stays in scripting request or gets its own thread, I think if galaxy_number and galaxy_seed would be made read/writeable the devs could shove the problem back to the oxp'ers.

[Eric Walch]

So, if it stays in scripting request or gets its own thread, I think if galaxy_number and galaxy_seed would be made read/writeable the devs could shove the problem back to the oxp'ers.

There is more to it than just make the value read/write. Everything in the game is written in the assumption that there are only 8 galaxies. e.g. only the first seed is hardcoded. All other 7 galaxies are generated by reading in the current seed from the save file. On a jump all 6 numbers in that seed are bitwise rotated. After 8 rotations you get the original value back because it are 8-bit numbers.

As Kaks noted is this problem solvable by hard code all 8 sets of seeds. But what to do with the planetInfo plists. They need a reference to a galaxy number. By just changing the seed value, all those data will still point one of the 8 basic galaxies.
Going through the code, you will hit more problems that are likely to break the game. So there is much more to it than just write changed seed values.

[Frame]

So, if it stays in scripting request or gets its own thread, I think if galaxy_number and galaxy_seed would be made read/writeable the devs could shove the problem back to the oxp'ers.

There is more to it than just make the value read/write. Everything in the game is written in the assumption that there are only 8 galaxies. e.g. only the first seed is hardcoded. All other 7 galaxies are generated by reading in the current seed from the save file. On a jump all 6 numbers in that seed are bitwise rotated. After 8 rotations you get the original value back because it are 8-bit numbers.

As Kaks noted is this problem solvable by hard code all 8 sets of seeds. But what to do with the planetInfo plists. They need a reference to a galaxy number. By just changing the seed value, all those data will still point one of the 8 basic galaxies.
Going through the code, you will hit more problems that are likely to break the game. So there is much more to it than just write changed seed values.

in reality the thing that really locks this up, is the fact that the seed and and all other dependant seeds are unsigned 8 bit values, meaning the maximum number of times that these can be rotated and produce a unique result, is 8 times.

And you cannot just change it to 16 bit or 32 bit., because there are places where 8 bit types are set equal to what would then be 16 or 32 bit types, which is illegal in cases..

the way I would do it, in order to try and preserve the functionality is to rotate the seeds left. Each time we enter a new octantivers®. and then from these rotate the individual seeds bitwise.

That way we get an additional 40 galaxies... which should be more than sufficient.

In regard to planet-info.plisting. We should be able to adopt the same procedure, upon looking the seed, in the key overrides function..

If there are arrays that expects only 8 galaxies, then these "should" be easily modified.

at least, that is my plan, from here on to how to grant access to galaxy 9

Would be a sort of Inter-Galactic hyper-drive that works in tandem with the galactic hyper-drive.

lets give it a juicy price tag of 15000 credits.. add to that, the 5000 you need for a galactic hyper-drive, and the combined price is 20000 credits...

fair i say...

there need be two kinds of inter-galactic hyper-drives though..


one that propels you to the next octantivers®
and one that takes you back to the former.

regardless, I'm going to look into it..

Cheers Frame....

[PhantorGorth]

The technical issues aside (none of which are simple but I doubt they are unsurpassible) there is the issue of having all the new galaxies populated with ship, stations, etc as if they are members of GalCop.

I don't think I am the only one who thinks this is just wrong.

They really needs to be a way to make these worlds different.

[Frame]

The technical issues aside (none of which are simple but I doubt they are unsurpassible) there is the issue of having all the new galaxies populated with ship, stations, etc as if they are members of GalCop.

I don't think I am the only one who thinks this is just wrong.

They really needs to be a way to make these worlds different.

"We will make them better worlds"
"all of them"

You are correct, however, populate them should be about the same, not sure but we could default them for now to "frontier systems", or maybe even encourage exploring and not give away the details of these systems, until the player has visited..

anything is possible really...

[Lestradae]

regardless, I'm going to look into it..

... we could default them for now to "frontier systems", or maybe even encourage exploring and not give away the details of these systems, until the player has visited...

That idea sounds very cool - and it would also create a nice template for oxps. If the standard structure of the "wild lands" would be "not part of galcop" and "essentially as good as unexplored" then oxps could make some of these new systems into specific different ones - completely alien empires, pirate systems, colonies or even ... earth and surroundings.

Perhaps - to keep with canon - these additional sectors could only be accessible after becoming *** ELITE *** - perhaps INRA contacts the player at that point for a very special recon/exploration mission, starting the whole thing off? ... Just brainstorming here.

[Frame]

was there not a way to once dumb a picture to the Hard disk of a galaxy ?..

I got a chart 9 working, (no equipment requirement yet), and it seems to work with save games...

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn18 ... chart9.jpg

What should I look for exactly in regard to breakage. ?

[Gimi]

What happens when you jump out of Galaxy 9. That would be the first thing to test.

As discussed earlier here, to just continue with 9, 10, 11 etc is not viable as the round trip to galaxy 1 would be just too long.

However returning to the Galaxy you came from would be brilliant for future OXP's with secret societies ("The Dark Wheel" and Raxxla anyone).

Your screenshot reveals where you come from by the way (At least the country)

Ha en fin dag

[Commander McLane]

Your screenshot reveals where you come from by the way (At least the country)

Which is no secret, anyway.

[Frame]

What happens when you jump out of Galaxy 9. That would be the first thing to test.

As discussed earlier here, to just continue with 9, 10, 11 etc is not viable as the round trip to galaxy 1 would be just too long.

However returning to the Galaxy you came from would be brilliant for future OXP's with secret societies ("The Dark Wheel" and Raxxla anyone).

Your screenshot reveals where you come from by the way (At least the country)

Ha en fin dag

yeah, its a well established fact where I'm from, in regard to your question, you end up in galaxy 10 then 11, and so on. It will do that until you hit galaxy 48, where the seeds flip again, and start over at galaxy 1.

This is where the Equipment comes in, which is going to be easy enough as we either shift the seeds left or right in regard to what octaverse we want to end up in...

so far I have come across no problems in regard to save games and plisting... It seems there something clever going on...

Since the save file now has an entry called found_system_seed

Cheers Frame...

[Gimi]

Ok, so the plan is to be able to go backwards and forward or am I mistaken.
I also saw your suggestion on multiple sets of 8 galaxies. I still believe your Idea would make the way back to galaxy one to long.

Would it be possible to have specialised equipment that would allow you to somehow choose what galaxy set and galaxy to go by using OXPconfig.oxp or something similar for example.

I suppose the other possibility is to have one type of galactic hyperdrive pr Galaxy. This would allow you to make it more expensive to go further away but still cheaper than consecutive jumps. Would be a lot of equipment though.

I still believe that galaxy 9 and beyond should be a reward for a mission or status, and that the return should be to one of the original 8. Gives the game more depth.

[another_commander]

Need to be careful here with reverse galactic jumping. We have had a similar discussion on the internal devs googlewave some time ago and although we had code ready to commit for it, we decided to not go ahead. Jumping to a new galaxy is supposed to be quite an event and making it possible to backtrack takes away the event's importance. Additionally, the main reason for clearing one's criminal record disappears the moment you enable backwards galactic jumps, because in that case, if I want a quick way to clean legal status without changing my present situation, I can jump backwards then forwards and return to my original system without the criminal tag. So, although this might be an idea for moving efficiently through 40 or so galaxies and is exciting at first glance, it does have its side effects on gameplay.

[Lestradae]

I suppose three things are emerging from this discussion about how to potentially move forwards:

1) The eight galaxies should stay the same untouched. In other words, no backwards GH'ing in them and they should function as a wheel.

2) Entering the additional sectors should be an epic, game-expanding event and to keep level with "canon" their existence should perhaps be a secret, their contents not GalCop. Perhaps an epic mission at a very high status (Deadly or ELITE) should open up their exploration.

3) For galaxies 9 to 40 (assuming Frame's idea will work/be accepted) there should perhaps be special, additional equipment to get to them and back again. That would be atmospheric and could be something like simply "the coordinates" and/or an "GH Powerup Clarketech Device X000" etc.

Does my summary make sense to anyone?

[Gimi]

Your screenshot reveals where you come from by the way (At least the country)

Which is no secret, anyway.

I didn't think it was a secret, just happy to see a fellow Scandihovian (I know there are more, and some quite prominent ones around )
Also, I just happen to be able to read the text.

Anyway, your concerns about jumping backwards kind of supports my view that access to additional galaxies should be something special available through a mission (preferably) or a certain status.

I like the idea of a Thargoid galaxy where a person through a mission is taken up as a member of the Thargoid trade society and can trade with the Thargoid. Endless possibilities for many scenarios, but access should be from a certain system or by special equipment and return should be to the same spot in my view.