Looking ahead

[Ganelon]

Another suggestion I'd have for Oo2 is a more complex economy/market. It wouldn't have to be anything amazing, just more than one set of profitable trades.

To stick with data in the current game as an example, High/Low tech systems could be one trade opportunity. Maybe high tech systems have machinery at good prices and low tech have alloys, with each buying what the other can provide. Political considerations could also be used as another factor. Each sort of political system could usually have one sort of merch at a good price and be a good market to sell some other sort. This would allow the same system used to generate planet data as is currently in place to provide a more complex trade environment.

Data that may be somewhat random but can be calculated from could also be used to provide a less predicable market. Say the number of police to number of criminals in each system is maybe random with some modifiers for political system and etc. If police outnumber criminals, then it's a "Law and Order" system, and if criminals outnumber police we could say it's "mob run". Firearms might bring a very good price in a mob run system, while gems and precious metals might be readily available. Firearms might cost less in a "Law and Order" system but gems and precious metals run high. (Yes, I'm quite aware that firearms are contraband, but that is no reason to exclude them from such considerations. How to manage it would be the player's problem, just as it is now.) The logic on the example might not be the best, but hopefully it illustrates the idea.

These considerations could be in addition to the current "rich_industrial/poor_agricultural" couplet. So any given system might have multiple market offerings or wants, rather than just the current milk-runs, and some of them might change depending on what was going on in the system.

[Disembodied]

A more complex economy is certainly on the cards if 2.0 does end up with data-driven galaxies.

The basic problem with trading is that it's too basic. There are so few items that are actually worth trading, it rapidly becomes routine. It's too easy to make money. To add a bit more interest to trading – a bit more risk/reward – there should be larger possible fluctuations in prices of individual commodities. It should be possible, although perhaps unlikely, to buy Computers at a Rich Industrial and take them to a Poor Agricultural, only find them on sale (this time) for less than you paid for them. This would mean that players have the option to hedge their bets, and take a spread of goods rather than fill up with a monocargo (to coin a phrase). If you're barely clearing a profit on the Computers, at least the Machinery and Luxuries are making you money, for example. It would make filling up the cargo bay just that little less automatic. This might mean a little under-the-hood fiddling: determining the sale price after the player arrives, based on the player's cargo (i.e. if you were lucky or unlucky), rather than waiting for the game universe to do it. It's player-centric but it should be invisible and only affects the player anyway.

It might even be possible to identify each product with its system of origin, e.g. "Furs from Isinor", "Machinery from Leesti" etc., and apply some sort of bonus calculation based on the distance from the point of origin (on the assumption tat goods that travel further are rarer and therefore more valuable). This could also give a risk/reward aspect: jumping 6.8LY is more dangerous than jumping 3LY, but it will probably give you more profit (this might not apply to all items: gold and platinum will still be gold and platinum).

With a data-driven galaxy it should be possible to add in specialist link-ups for example, they might be nuts for Riedquat Liquor & Wines on Aruzati, maybe, or crazy about Begeabi food on Teraed.

One other bright idea: making the trading less certain might mean helping out beginners a bit more. So I think it would be a good idea to introduce a small-scale UPS-style parcel delivery job element to the F8-F8 screen. Nothing that brings in huge payments (20–50Cr a time, perhaps, with the odd early delivery bonus job thrown in), but something that doesn't take up any cargo hold space and gives players a chance to do some timed deliveries and play with the long-range chart – maybe even get to string a few packet drops together and make a little bit of cash as a courier.

[Smivs]

This would mean that players have the option to hedge their bets, and take a spread of goods rather than fill up with a monocargo (to coin a phrase). If you're barely clearing a profit on the Computers, at least the Machinery and Luxuries are making you money, for example.

I think disembodied might have been hinting at this - that you should be able to buy and sell small quantities. At the moment you have to buy (and sell) all or nothing (or as much as your hold can take). Not really a problem for us folks with big ships, but a Cobby with a 20/35 TC this can be a problem. Being able to buy in say increments of 5 TC would be useful to allow a mix of goods to be carried on even small ships.

[ADCK]

reading the last few posts gave me some ideas for suggestions,

1: Un-hardcode the AI for fighting, so we can OXP our own attack patterns.

2: Add more commodities, or give us the ability to add them.

I'd like to see the following as commodities:

Fuel
Raw Quirium (Cargo cannisters of this explode when shot/rammed, ships carrying this make bigger explosions)
Refined Quirium (As above, but bigger explosions)
Water
Oxygen
Medical Supplies
Ship Parts
Antiques

And maybe some more abstract ones like:

Unobtainium
Religious Paraphernalia
Collectables
Tribbles
All 450 remixes of Friday by Rebecca Black

WAIT NO NOT THE LAST ONE PLEASE!

[JensAyton]

Another suggestion I'd have for Oo2 is a more complex economy/market.

I don’t expect to change the core game’s economic model, but I’d like to implement it completely in JavaScript so it can be replaced.

[Disembodied]

I think disembodied might have been hinting at this - that you should be able to buy and sell small quantities. At the moment you have to buy (and sell) all or nothing (or as much as your hold can take). Not really a problem for us folks with big ships, but a Cobby with a 20/35 TC this can be a problem. Being able to buy in say increments of 5 TC would be useful to allow a mix of goods to be carried on even small ships.

No ... it's always been possible to buy single tons of this and that! It's just easier to take everything there with one keypress (seriously – give it a try! ). What I meant was, there's no point in taking Machinery if there are Computers on offer, because the margin on Computers is always better. Ditto for Liquor & Wines versus Furs: always take the Furs first. But if there was potentially more randomness per item then players could gamble on a big profit on one sort of cargo, or hedge their bets and take 5 tons of this and 3 tons of that: if they make a loss on one commodity they should still make enough of a profit on the others to stay in the black.

[Disembodied]

I don’t expect to change the core game’s economic model, but I’d like to implement it completely in JavaScript so it can be replaced.

Sounds interesting! For those people who might not have any clue about what's possible with JavaScript (*cough* ), what might that entail? Would it be possible to remodel it to the extent of, say, introducing different buying and selling prices in the same market? i.e. so the player might be able to buy Computers for 62Cr/ton but only sell them for 45Cr/ton? (Selling prices would always have to be lower, for obvious reasons.)

What are the chances of introducing small-profit packet contracts to the F8-F8 screen?

[Smivs]

No ... it's always been possible to buy single tons of this and that!

Doh! Have I missed something.....I didn't know you can do that
Er, how?

[DaddyHoggy]

I think disembodied might have been hinting at this - that you should be able to buy and sell small quantities. At the moment you have to buy (and sell) all or nothing (or as much as your hold can take). Not really a problem for us folks with big ships, but a Cobby with a 20/35 TC this can be a problem. Being able to buy in say increments of 5 TC would be useful to allow a mix of goods to be carried on even small ships.

No ... it's always been possible to buy single tons of this and that! It's just easier to take everything there with one keypress (seriously – give it a try! ). What I meant was, there's no point in taking Machinery if there are Computers on offer, because the margin on Computers is always better. Ditto for Liquor & Wines versus Furs: always take the Furs first. But if there was potentially more randomness per item then players could gamble on a big profit on one sort of cargo, or hedge their bets and take 5 tons of this and 3 tons of that: if they make a loss on one commodity they should still make enough of a profit on the others to stay in the black.

This is why I install some of the other station types - such as Constores - simply because they do offer an element of randomness between the main station defaults and their own markets. Considering (E)Oolite has always been a trading game as well as a combat game I always thought that the actual trading/market let it down somewhat - as you said always take computers over machinery, always take furs over Liquor and Wines, it makes for a predictable and dull trading methodology - it's actually the reason I stopped playing the original Elite, once I got to Elite and had more money than I knew what to do with, the only unpredictability was the C64 bug where Alien Items didn't actually take up any cargo space - so I'd fill up with scooped Thargons and sell them when the price was high - and that was it - the only excitement left (in trading).

Oolite's marginally better than that for a while because you can keep buying bigger ships but eventually, given the 128TC limit that caps out too - a chance for OX*ers to script variable markets for mission related reasons - liquor and wines sell better because of a royal wedding, furs sell better because of a harsh winter, firearms sell better because of a civil war, etc would be really nice...

[DaddyHoggy]

No ... it's always been possible to buy single tons of this and that!

Doh! Have I missed something.....I didn't know you can do that
Er, how?

Left and right arrow keys rather than Enter

[Smivs]

Thanks. I don't believe I've been playing this game for so long without knowing that!
You really can teach an old Pumpkin new tricks

[Commander McLane]

No ... it's always been possible to buy single tons of this and that!

Doh! Have I missed something.....I didn't know you can do that
Er, how?

Right arrow: transfer one unit from the left column (station market) to the right column (ship) = buy.
Left arrow: transfer one unit from the right column to the left column = sell.

Just like the key list in the readMe explains.

Also I thought that to be really obvious.

[Smivs]

Also I thought that to be really obvious.

Like so much of life, it's obvious when you know it

[Disembodied]

There's also "shift-right arrow" = buy all, and "shift-left arrow" = sell all, too.

[Mauiby de Fug]

Would it be possible to remodel it to the extent of, say, introducing different buying and selling prices in the same market? i.e. so the player might be able to buy Computers for 62Cr/ton but only sell them for 45Cr/ton? (Selling prices would always have to be lower, for obvious reasons.)

This was how I was used to trading in ArcElite. It makes sense that way - no ruthless vendor willing to make a profit is going to buy goods at the same price he sells them at!