cloaked ships don't masslock you

Frame · Post by **Frame** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:10 pm

I started looking around for insight into the machine code of the Elite game instead.. interestingly I found the digram and it matches Oolites Perfectly as it it should..

But.. I also found the vertex data

..

This last ship is the cougar, however, not in the form we see it on the wiki.. I cannot recall that ship, but it may have looked like that in another version of Elite..

however, I'm in the process of recreating the Cougar in 3d max.. interestingly its just like normal day dat file reading however with Hex numbers that I have to convert each and every one first..

Cheers Frame...

the data is like this..

Code: Select all

 COUGAR
 &00
 &14,&0E
 vertices
 &00,&05,&43
 -&14,&00,&28
 -&28,&00,-&28
 &00,&0E,-&28
 &00,-&0E,-&28
 &14,&00,&28
 &28,&00,-&28
 -&24,&00,&38
 -&3C,&00,-&14
 &24,&00,&38
 &3C,&00,-&14
 &00,&07,&23
 &00,&08,&19
 -&0C,&02,&2D
 &0C,&02,&2D
 -&0A,&06,-&28
 -&0A,-&06,-&28
 &0A,-&06,-&28
 &0A,&06,-&28
 &00,&00,-&28
 faces
 &01,-&10,&2E,&04,4,3,0,1,2
 &01,-&10,-&2E,&04,3,4,1,2
 &03,&00,-&1B,&05,4,4,5,0,1
 &02,&10,-&2E,&04,3,6,5,4
 &02,&10,&2E,&04,4,0,3,6,5
 &05,&00,&00,-&A0,4,6,4,2,3
 &06,-&10,-&2E,&04,4,1,2,8,7
 &06,-&10,&2E,&04,4,1,2,8,7
 &06,&10,&2E,&04,4,5,6,10,9
 &06,&10,-&2E,&04,4,5,6,10,9
 &08,&00,&00,-&A0,3,15,16,19
 &08,&00,&00,-&A0,3,19,18,17
 &09,-&10,&2E,&04,3,11,13,12
 &09,&10,&2E,&04,3,11,14,12

Edit now that i look at it, i can see some of faces are quads, not triangles..

Post by **Micha** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:48 pm

Kaks wrote:
Personally I'd go with the theory that mass lock is dependent on huge mass and/or quirium, which still disqualifies asteroids (but not rock hermits).

My preference is for mass-lock to lock on mass, as the name implies and as happened on the C64 version of Elite. Hence my personal copy of Oolite also mass-locks on anything larger than a certain size.

My preference for cloaked ships is to behave normally as far as mass-locking goes.

Frame · Post by **Frame** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:03 pm

regarding mass lock..

Elite c 64 is a bit different, it does not mass lock when you for example is
pointing away from sun/planet and press J..

something similar should be possible with Oolite though..

it would make it easier to sun skim and stay in the same system, and quickly avoid cabin overheat, which also was why getting rid of the pest was easier, than it is now...

regarding the cougar, I got a vertex setup in oolite, with the faces not correctly attached because of Elites different way of drawing these.

however the shape of the cougar is painfully clear to me now,some minor details like the cockpit is missing though...

Code: Select all

 *   *   *
**  ***  **
** ***** **
** ***** **
***********
 *********

Website · Post by **DaddyHoggy** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:14 pm

Frame wrote:
regarding mass lock..

Elite c 64 is a bit different, it does not mass lock when you for example is
pointing away from sun/planet and press J..

something similar should be possible with Oolite though..

it would make it easier to sun skim and stay in the same system, and quickly avoid cabin overheat, which also was why getting rid of the pest was easier, than it is now...

regarding the cougar, I got a vertex setup in oolite, with the faces not correctly attached because of Elites different way of drawing these.

however the shape of the cougar is painfully clear to me now,some minor details like the cockpit is missing though...
Code: Select all
 *   *   *
**  ***  **
** ***** **
** ***** **
***********
 *********

Hmmm, that's a familiar shape now you've drawn it...

If you look here - there is mention (but no image) of the Cougar - and I had a friend that had the BBC Master version - and that is the ship I remember as it was described on the start screen.

(Note Oolite (from 2005) gets a mention on the same page!)

http://www.8bs.com/submit/subelite.htm

Frame · Post by **Frame** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:19 pm

thanks i can now do better..

due to the fact that oolite draws in a different way than present day OpenGl and DirectX it got more faces than the original, namely 18 instead of 14..

anyway without futher due, here it is, the Elite C64 Cougar

click thumb for orthographic blueprint

Edit

Perspective view

Cheers Frame...

Gimi · Post by **Gimi** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:25 pm

I'm having a deja vu here. Have seen this somewhere before.

But where?

Website · Post by **DaddyHoggy** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:26 pm

Or a page here - which allows you to edit the original game to jump to the "Destroy Cougar mission".

The image of the cougar comes back to me (from 20yrs ago) - the ship looked like a letter W - and the outer prongs I don't remember coming to a point - I remember a centre line at the tips - so the ship was quite "thick" when looking at it from the front - I wish I could draw and I'd sketch and scan!
http://home.flash.net/~rayearle/Efiles/Elite.html

Just seen your pics - right shape but the prongs did not come to a point in the height axis (sorry, difficult to explain!)

Frame · Post by **Frame** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:36 pm

the prongs are flat, I think this is a poly reducing effort, and they do end in a point... I traced them from vertex to vertex, and they only consist of 3 lines, meaning they have to end in a point...

The vertex data is exact, while the faces are slightly modified to accomodate for the diffrences in rendering wireframes only, where you can get away with such things as incorrect geometry..

something you cannot in an application such as 3dmax..

I'll make a quick Demo OXP out of it.

Gimi · Post by **Gimi** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:47 pm

Found on Ian Bells Elite page:

Ship: COUGAR
Size: 70
Energy: 252
Speed: 40
Max Missiles Carried: 4m
Max Loot: 3t
Bounty CR: 0.0
NES Kill Value (Hex): 10.00

http://www.iancgbell.clara.net/elite/faq.htm#A23

Edit: Some more info:

From the: Alt.Fan.Elite Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/bbc/doc/games/EliteFAQ.htm

There are two additional ships; the Cougar is found in Master and Tube
(and possibly Master Compact) versions of Elite as a very rare encounter,
and as a reinforcement for the cloaked Asp in the 16 bit mission set.

Would be interesting to see what the Cougar looks like in these other versions.

Commander McLane · Post by **Commander McLane** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:11 pm

There seems to be a lot of contradicting information about the Cougar. Not only on the websites linked to by DH, but also previously on this very board. Here's an old thread, unfortunately the pictures don't exist anymore:

https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.ph ... ght=cougar

Frame · Post by **Frame** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:16 pm

Thanks ,

here is the OXP

it spawns a numb cougar outside the station
you need set oolite to draw wireframes from inside the options menu
in order to see the cockpit, and possibly the wireframe drawn exhaust of Elite C 64

http://www.box.net/shared/se1q37jjrb

Website · Post by **Cody** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:25 pm

Gimi wrote:
From the: Alt.Fan.Elite Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/bbc/doc/games/EliteFAQ.htm

Some interesting reading there.
I had the standard BBC Elite and there’s no Cougar in that shipset, which is reassuring, as I couldn’t remember it.

Note: In Elite Plus, there is also a message in the code welcoming you to the 9th Galaxy.
No-one has yet found out how to get there.

I’ve now restarted my hunt for a couple of old Elite Plus savegames, that I know I have somewhere.
I’m sure I’d been in G9... my rank was Archangel, so I must have been.

Gimi · Post by **Gimi** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:32 pm

El Viejo wrote:
I’m sure I’d been in G9... my rank was Archangel, so I must have been.

I thought you got the Archangel rank for saving some space station or planet in the Nova mission or some other mission. I know I got the same rank in Elite Plus, but can't remember going to galaxy 9.

Website · Post by **Cody** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:37 pm

Gimi wrote:
I thought you got the Archangel rank for saving some space station or planet in the Nova mission or some other mission.

Yeah, you're right... it was a station that had been taken over by Thargoids and you had to destroy it.

I'm sure I recall being in G9, though.
<must find those savegames>

<edit to add> Yeah, it was the Thargoid Invasion mission… a difficult one, as I recall.
Wish I could remember which mission awarded the anti-ECM equipment.

JazHaz · Post by **JazHaz** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:49 pm

El Viejo wrote:
Wish I could remember which mission awarded the anti-ECM equipment.

You're talking about the ECM Jammer aren't you? I believe it was in the Amiga/ST Elite.... but may also have been in Spectrum Elite also....

Googled it. Found the following at: http://wos.meulie.net/pub/sinclair/game ... rogram.txt

WE'RE JAMMIN'
The first is the ECM Jammer System which, as you'd imagine, jams your
enemies' ECM Systems so they're unable to deflect your missiles when
you fire at them.
This is apparently given to you by the Federation to complete your
first mission - blow up the Thargoid overrun Space Station at
Tibedied.