Big is Beautiful?

Charlie · Post by **Charlie** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:31 pm

A queery:
How big ( and by this I mean BIG!!! ) can objects be made in Oolite and still function properly?

In the process of updating Orb.oxp I'm trying to add some BIG stuff.
( Not to mention my mythical Blackhole.oxp that I never released because I couldn't get it BIG enough )

Currently I'm in the region of:

model size: 5000.000 x 5000.000 x 5000.000 - for something roundish...
or
model size: 30600.000 x 30600.000 x 2400.000 - for something flattish...

Both could do with being at least twice that size ( never mind about a blackhole needing to be about a factor of 100 bigger again! )

The problem?
@ the above sizes the objects spawn into a system fine, but try & witch-space into such a system and more-often-than-not you see the 'rings' go off-center followed by 'bouncing off' the system @ uncontrollable high speed when arriving in normal space. You do @ least get to see what a star looks like from a very long way off!
OOlite may, or may not then crash. If it doesn't you can still jump to another system ( with enough fuel )

Oolite barfs on any object much bigger than this by either blowing you up on starting / launching, crashes, or both.

That BlackHole.oxp had me spending hours trying to cut it up into tiny sub-entities before I shelved it. ( hopefully not for good )

Any ideas?

Thanks.

Killer Wolf · Post by **Killer Wolf** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:27 am

my spacestation stands about 6500 high, if MilkShape is to be believed, doesn't seem to run into any probs in the flybys i've done so far. the annoying bother i have is that it's bigger than the draw distances of MS's 3D view so you can't see the whole structure - how you go about designing something 30k big i have no idea! :-/

does that bouncing occur even when you've positioned the object well away from the Beacon?

...anyways, aren't black holes supposed to be fairly smallish? i thought they were created by ultra-compression when a star collapsed, so theoretically shouldn't they be say on planet-size scale at most?

davcefai · Post by **davcefai** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 12:20 pm

Black holes are not big. See
http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/questi ... number=160
for some info.

However you then need to create the "scenery" around them and you may simply have moved the problem.

This may help

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/htmltest/rjn_bht.html

Good Luck!

Charlie · Post by **Charlie** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:39 pm

Hi guys - thanks for the replys...

Yes as you say a black hole is very small. ( or at least the event horzon is, a singularity is by defanition infinitely small... ) To clarify I was referring to the huge acceleration disc, gamma bursters etc.

The 'bouncing' is more likely to occour if placed near another large object, but not generally true.
I've seen big objects overlap stations, plannets etc with no consequences but I've also had trouble with placement in 'empty space'.

It does seem that beyond roughly the above size Oolite says: 'The universe ain't big enough for the both of us.' But it's very variable - bigger sometimes works, much smaller can cause trouble too...

PS
Thanks for the links... As it should be done, but beyond me to implement. ( and poss Oolite too ) I've gone for the classic movie blackhole - there's screenies on this BB of an early model I did - somewhere!

Ah, yes another problem: ( though easy enough to get around, or use to your advantage )
For the purposes of how far away you can see an object Oolite seems to use the primary .dat file & not the sub-entities in the calculation.
So...
If you make a small event-horizon object as your primary .dat & then make the disc out of sub-entities you won't see anything in-game until you are right on top of it!

JensAyton · Post by **JensAyton** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:27 pm

I can’t promise to do anything about this anytime soon, but it’d be more likely if I had an OXP and saved game demonstrating the problem.

Charlie · Post by **Charlie** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:44 pm

Ooooo - you're a star!

I'll stick up my Orb.oxp update in it's current ( very unfinished form ) with a game save & see what you think...
( I'll pm you when it's up )

With the 'objects' @ their current size you should be able to leave the station without problems.., but jump to another system & bouncy-bouncy!!!

PS
@Ahruman:
If you have an answer for this I'll be soooo grateful ( & BlackHole.oxp may actually end up being released! )
PPS
-Please note for any system the .oxp is coded for three posabilities - no big object appears, a Dyson Sphere, a Ring World, so you may need to have a few goes before much happens...
-Can't see it? Use the advanced compass: O - for Orb, but if it's there you really can't miss it!!
-Nothing @ all will happen in systems already populated by other .oxp's ( so stay away form the Ionics planets for example )
PPPS
If anyone else try's to playtest this version PLEASE keep in mind that this version is nowhere near complete:
Orbiting entities, lights, debris, ships flying about - the whole community thing that would go round this stuff is not implemented yet! Also I havn't got a hang on the AI to make them point @ the star reliably. Also though they are dockable, that AI/Script isn't finished (started) yet either, so the REALlY COOL stuff isn't there!

JensAyton · Post by **JensAyton** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:06 pm

But a “real” Dyson sphere consists of lots of unconnected smallish entities in a spherical arrangement. The “solid shell” version wouldn’t work. :-)

Charlie · Post by **Charlie** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:38 pm

Ah - yes...

If only I could do a proper Dyson Sphere, or indeed Ring World based arround an Oolite star...
I don't expect that to be possible, though if you want to tell me I'm wrong...

( I'm hoping a full-size Ring World would not be out of the question though I'm not holding my breath )

Instead the two models I have are rather smaller ( the Orb themselves are v small ) situated v near a star & drawing power direct from the corona... That then powers their own 'mini-star' for the mini DS or RW.