Hi all,
The reason I got into writing for Oolite in the first place was that it was fun.
I’m afraid it ceases to be fun if I cannot update my own work, because Lestrade has decided unilaterally that he can simply Copy and Paste anything I have written into OSE and release it.
The legal rights or wrongs of it are really not the point. The point is that it changes the nature of the project from being one of, when I have time and the mood takes me I can write some code for an OXP to one of: when I feel like writing some code for an OXP I must first write it and test it and the submit it to Lestrade to include in OSE.
Frankly, it changes the nature of the task from one that is a bit of a laugh that I can do when I feel like it, to submitting work to a boss.
Whilst I can see the advantages of a “One OXP to Rule them all”, as a writer I don’t particularly like being ruled by OSE, so I’m giving up writing any new code.
Anybody, including Lestrade, should feel free to use anything I’ve submitted to the project for the good of the project, but I do not intend to write anything more or update any of my OXPs.
I do think it is a shame that the project has effectively been divided into OSE v everything else. But I haven’t got either the time or inclination to write for Oolite, when anything I do write I immediately lose control over and cannot expand or bugfix without it going through the OSE clearing house.
I’ll drop by from time to time, but basically I’m retiring from the project.
Leaving
Moderators: another_commander, winston
-
LittleBear
- ---- E L I T E ----
- Posts: 2862
- Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:02 pm
- Location: On a survey mission for GalCop. Ship: Cobra Corvette: Hidden Dragon Rated: Deadly.
Leaving
OXPS : The Assassins Guild, Asteroid Storm, The Bank of the Black Monks, Random Hits, The Galactic Almanac, Renegade Pirates can be downloaded from the Elite Wiki here.
-
Commander McLane
- ---- E L I T E ----
- Posts: 9520
- Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:08 am
- Location: a Hacker Outpost in a moderately remote area
- Contact:
Your decision makes me sad, and I feel very sorry that you came to it. But I also understand how you arrived at it.
You have been the most helpful contributor to this community for a long time, not only through your amazing and ground-breaking OXPs, but even more so by your never-ending patience and willingness to share your insights and experiences, and help young OXPers with their first steps (and also those who are not so young anymore).
I am very grateful for all you have done on and for these forums and the comOonity, and for Oolite itself by expanding it in ways we didn't think were possible before you actually did it!
I very much do hope that you will continue to contribute here on the forums, because I would very much miss your voice of reason, and your enormous insight into all aspects of OXPing.
So long, and
Right On, Commander!
Hey LittleBear,
I haven't been in the Commoonity for all that long, but am thoroughly enjoying Random Hits while Asteroid Storm was a great beginners mission.
It's a shame that you're letting the current issues spoil your enjoyment of Oolite and writing what are, as far as I can tell, pretty much universally enjoyed expansions.
I don't quite understand why you feel that you have to support your OXPs for RS/OSE/whatever and that your work has to be 'vetted' by these other works. You could simply put a disclaimer on that anybody who has (had) installed a meta-OXP has to go through the meta-OXPs author for any bugs, unless the player can reproduce the issue using an 'untainted' save-file.
I do realise there's probably more to it than just the support issue stuff though.
I would ask you to reconsider, but it's a decision which only you can make.
All the best,
- Micha.
I haven't been in the Commoonity for all that long, but am thoroughly enjoying Random Hits while Asteroid Storm was a great beginners mission.
It's a shame that you're letting the current issues spoil your enjoyment of Oolite and writing what are, as far as I can tell, pretty much universally enjoyed expansions.
I don't quite understand why you feel that you have to support your OXPs for RS/OSE/whatever and that your work has to be 'vetted' by these other works. You could simply put a disclaimer on that anybody who has (had) installed a meta-OXP has to go through the meta-OXPs author for any bugs, unless the player can reproduce the issue using an 'untainted' save-file.
I do realise there's probably more to it than just the support issue stuff though.
I would ask you to reconsider, but it's a decision which only you can make.
All the best,
- Micha.
The glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
I don't really understand what OSE is. I am sorry that you feel less enthusiastic about contributing things because your stuff was pretty cool.
I will ahve to go look up what OSE is. I like the ability to add some OXPs and not others, so one OXP that has everything would not be that appealing to me.
I will ahve to go look up what OSE is. I like the ability to add some OXPs and not others, so one OXP that has everything would not be that appealing to me.
-
drew
- ---- E L I T E ----
- Posts: 2189
- Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 9:29 am
- Location: In front of a laptop writing a book.
- Contact:
I can't say I understand the reasons to be honest, seems like a storm in a tea cup to me. 
But you will be missed if you leave permanently. I enjoyed Asteroid storm a lot and the Black Monks were genius. You clearly have a great talent.
Thanks for all the kind comments on my fanfic contributions.
Hopefully you'll reconsider.
Cheers,
Drew.
But you will be missed if you leave permanently. I enjoyed Asteroid storm a lot and the Black Monks were genius. You clearly have a great talent.
Thanks for all the kind comments on my fanfic contributions.
Hopefully you'll reconsider.
Cheers,
Drew.
-
Killer Wolf
- ---- E L I T E ----
- Posts: 2269
- Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:38 pm
-
Lestradae
- ---- E L I T E ----
- Posts: 3095
- Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:30 pm
- Location: Vienna, Austria
..
LittleBear,
My opinion on this: I can only cite Micha. He wrote exactly what I think:
There is simply someone (me) who hugely enjoys your oxps, too, and wants to have them in the OE bundle because then even more people can enjoy them!
And if you had specific requests, they could for sure be resolved via PM as we already had started to do before all of this erupted ...
I wish you all well however you decide, but I wanted you wouldn't take this - to be honest with you - quite sulky step
L
My opinion on this: I can only cite Micha. He wrote exactly what I think:
Think again. There is no "boss" you "have to submit your work to". There is nothing you have to care about updating - I would have to care.Micha wrote:It's a shame that you're letting the current issues spoil your enjoyment of Oolite and writing what are, as far as I can tell, pretty much universally enjoyed expansions.
I don't quite understand why you feel that you have to support your OXPs for RS/OSE/whatever and that your work has to be 'vetted' by these other works. You could simply put a disclaimer on that anybody who has (had) installed a meta-OXP has to go through the meta-OXPs author for any bugs, unless the player can reproduce the issue using an 'untainted' save-file.
...
I would ask you to reconsider, but it's a decision which only you can make.
There is simply someone (me) who hugely enjoys your oxps, too, and wants to have them in the OE bundle because then even more people can enjoy them!
And if you had specific requests, they could for sure be resolved via PM as we already had started to do before all of this erupted ...
I wish you all well however you decide, but I wanted you wouldn't take this - to be honest with you - quite sulky step
L
Well, I just wanted to say what everybody else has said. Your work is an amazing source of inspiration, and I was looking forward to seeing a future RH, one that reflects more fully what you want it to be.
It looks now that it's not going to happen, and I understand fully you not wanting to be involved in legal sounding stuff in your time off - busman's holiday and all that...
Hopefully things will improve and there might come a time when improving RH - or even talking about improving it - won't feel like a chore.
Until the time you rediscover the not-so-simple joys of scripting, it's still good to know you will be around the forums!
The commoonity would be much poorer without you!
It looks now that it's not going to happen, and I understand fully you not wanting to be involved in legal sounding stuff in your time off - busman's holiday and all that...
Hopefully things will improve and there might come a time when improving RH - or even talking about improving it - won't feel like a chore.
Until the time you rediscover the not-so-simple joys of scripting, it's still good to know you will be around the forums!
The commoonity would be much poorer without you!
Hey, free OXPs: farsun v1.05 & tty v0.5! :0)
-
ClymAngus
- ---- E L I T E ----
- Posts: 2508
- Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:31 am
- Location: London England
- Contact:
I say let your work bust OSE.
I would like to see a multiplicity. A game for people who wish to be spoon fed which can also cater for the more refined and selective gamer. OSE provides for one but not the other it is therefore at best a partial solution. To a problem we are currently unsure we actually have.
If some people wish to mash up breakfast, dinner and tea and straw feed themselves this game then fine. Mr Bear I consider you a Gordon Ramsy of oxp creation. Just because you invent Aberdeen Angus chargrilled hamberger does not make Mc Donalds your responsibility.
That said there is the finer point of does making it compatable, screw the oxp? Maybe a disclaimer should be added to collective oxps informing them that the contents may have been altered for compatibility reasons? Maybe on asking if an oxp writer doesn't want their work included that should be respected. Maybe building a castle on shifting sands of other peoples work, which could be taken away at any point, is logisical and political folly.
When all is said and done Mr B. The only person who can stop you is you. These people have no power to seriously damage your enjoyment of this game. Your work is lauded over sir!
Hell my shit blows up every time it goes near a "loop" object. Am I in any rush to fix it? Na. My response to anyone with the dumb nuts to say "Fix this now!" is "or what, slick?"
Go if you must, but we kind of like having you around. Your good, and it's a shame to loose good people.
I would like to see a multiplicity. A game for people who wish to be spoon fed which can also cater for the more refined and selective gamer. OSE provides for one but not the other it is therefore at best a partial solution. To a problem we are currently unsure we actually have.
If some people wish to mash up breakfast, dinner and tea and straw feed themselves this game then fine. Mr Bear I consider you a Gordon Ramsy of oxp creation. Just because you invent Aberdeen Angus chargrilled hamberger does not make Mc Donalds your responsibility.
That said there is the finer point of does making it compatable, screw the oxp? Maybe a disclaimer should be added to collective oxps informing them that the contents may have been altered for compatibility reasons? Maybe on asking if an oxp writer doesn't want their work included that should be respected. Maybe building a castle on shifting sands of other peoples work, which could be taken away at any point, is logisical and political folly.
When all is said and done Mr B. The only person who can stop you is you. These people have no power to seriously damage your enjoyment of this game. Your work is lauded over sir!
Hell my shit blows up every time it goes near a "loop" object. Am I in any rush to fix it? Na. My response to anyone with the dumb nuts to say "Fix this now!" is "or what, slick?"
Go if you must, but we kind of like having you around. Your good, and it's a shame to loose good people.
-
Lestradae
- ---- E L I T E ----
- Posts: 3095
- Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:30 pm
- Location: Vienna, Austria
.
I am leaving, too.
The reactions to RS/OSE/OE have made it obvious that any sort of bigger meta-oxp or oxp-bundle is not socially possible in this sort of community nor this sort of climate.
There are some people here who sit on their stuff as our beloved mega-corporations do it, calling anyone who tries to do something combining that "untrustworthy", "in bad faith", "disrespecting the feelings of others", "idiot" etc. etc. to name but a few.
I have no idea why and what for some of the "ruling elite" of devs and oxp-makers feels that threatened about the idea of an oxp bundle, and I no longer even want to know. I have the impression that this is less about the "feelings" of said people here, but more a flamewar of some who want to cement their status on this board.
Some try to depict the situation now that I simply ignored the wishes of people who's stuff I wanted to include - but that is an outright lie. The flames that started every moment I publicly did anything on this meta-oxp idea (like these last ones now) effectively prevented exactly that in many cases - and some of you know that when I was contacted, I usually did as asked and got rather cooperative.
A big, cooperative oxp-bundle is simply impossible in a climate of outright hate, petty jealousy and throwing spanners into the works at every opportunity - which I do think is all that this is actually about.
I am pulling out all my work. There will be no player stations, no realistic shipyards pricing, no combat computers, special system or any other stuff I provided or were about to provide. I am sure the players of Oolite will thank the guys I'm writing about a lot about that, too. RS was downloaded 5300 times. But I am sure this is completely irrelevant and means nothing, while what the ten entrenched elite oxp-makers here say does.
Some of you people really must be broken in the head somewhat. (Please don't delete this admittedly inflammatory statement here, admins, it's the last and only one you're going to read from me here ever again. It simply has to be said this once.) I take the only viable route out and see to it that that won't be one of my problems in the future.
L
PS: There are quite a few people here who are really friendly, cool, nice, respectful, agree-to-disagree-able, helpful guys and gals with other ways of solving conflicts than bullying. You know who you are. To you, I say thanks for the journey, and hope you continue to find joy and entertainment in whatever you do.
The reactions to RS/OSE/OE have made it obvious that any sort of bigger meta-oxp or oxp-bundle is not socially possible in this sort of community nor this sort of climate.
There are some people here who sit on their stuff as our beloved mega-corporations do it, calling anyone who tries to do something combining that "untrustworthy", "in bad faith", "disrespecting the feelings of others", "idiot" etc. etc. to name but a few.
I have no idea why and what for some of the "ruling elite" of devs and oxp-makers feels that threatened about the idea of an oxp bundle, and I no longer even want to know. I have the impression that this is less about the "feelings" of said people here, but more a flamewar of some who want to cement their status on this board.
Some try to depict the situation now that I simply ignored the wishes of people who's stuff I wanted to include - but that is an outright lie. The flames that started every moment I publicly did anything on this meta-oxp idea (like these last ones now) effectively prevented exactly that in many cases - and some of you know that when I was contacted, I usually did as asked and got rather cooperative.
A big, cooperative oxp-bundle is simply impossible in a climate of outright hate, petty jealousy and throwing spanners into the works at every opportunity - which I do think is all that this is actually about.
I am pulling out all my work. There will be no player stations, no realistic shipyards pricing, no combat computers, special system or any other stuff I provided or were about to provide. I am sure the players of Oolite will thank the guys I'm writing about a lot about that, too. RS was downloaded 5300 times. But I am sure this is completely irrelevant and means nothing, while what the ten entrenched elite oxp-makers here say does.
Some of you people really must be broken in the head somewhat. (Please don't delete this admittedly inflammatory statement here, admins, it's the last and only one you're going to read from me here ever again. It simply has to be said this once.) I take the only viable route out and see to it that that won't be one of my problems in the future.
L
PS: There are quite a few people here who are really friendly, cool, nice, respectful, agree-to-disagree-able, helpful guys and gals with other ways of solving conflicts than bullying. You know who you are. To you, I say thanks for the journey, and hope you continue to find joy and entertainment in whatever you do.
-
Commander Khai
- Above Average
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:56 am
-
ClymAngus
- ---- E L I T E ----
- Posts: 2508
- Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:31 am
- Location: London England
- Contact:
Sure, this is one of those "nova" threads that occassionally occur on creative boards from time to time. When an impossible force slams squarely into an immovable object. Quiet reservation regarding a certain idea or project slowly bubble under the surface until a single act causes it all to be brought to a head. With the regretable results seen above.
In a nut shell some people wanted to unify a lot of the work posted over the years, other people did not. Given the patch work quilt of involvment, this was always going to be a thorny issue.
An altimatum is issued. Cards get layed on the table. It ends badly. It happens.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mU9_Q7PJ ... re=related
In a nut shell some people wanted to unify a lot of the work posted over the years, other people did not. Given the patch work quilt of involvment, this was always going to be a thorny issue.
An altimatum is issued. Cards get layed on the table. It ends badly. It happens.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mU9_Q7PJ ... re=related
