Eye Candy vs. Imagination

[another_commander]

Moderator: split off from “Sung’s Textures”

I don't wish to tread on anyone's toes, but I really think these should be considered as the standard textures for the ships in Oolite.

They instantly improve the general appearance of the game, in my opinion.

I disagree. OXP, yes. Standard, no way. These textures, although great looking - I have used them for quite a while in the past myself -, suffer from a fundamental problem: It is immediately obvious that they are like paper with drawings wrapped around the models (look at the Python and you will know what I mean). The original textures, exactly because of their simplicity, do not have this issue. Without wanting to be disrespectful to people who have done texture work for the Oolite ships, I feel that the originals by Giles convey much better the spirit of Elite than anything else I have seen so far. And it is because of this that I would prefer to keep the original textures untouched.

[Commander McLane]

I have to agree, as it comes to the spirit of Elite.

Generally spoken, the one thing that fascinates me most about Oolite (and Elite, for that matter) is its intrinsic simplicity, and the way it invites you to get involved with the whole story. The whole Elite-experience relies very much on yourself, taking up the framework, expanding on the bits of the background story you know, filling the blanks, inventing a logical and plausible structure with the framework in your hand. And all of this takes place mainly in your head, not on your screen. The screen of your computer is just the canvas you have to fill with your imagination.

So for me the canvas-like textures of the original set are very much a condition for the whole game to work. Too much pre-fabricated detail on the canvas I am supposed to paint on is more likely to hinder my imaginative process than to support it.

Therefore I have been consistently very critical to all sorts of graphical overkill in Oolite.

Of course, nobody has to subscribe to my point of view. And at the end of the day it just may come down to me not installing a lot of fancy OXPs (which I indeed don't). But on the other hand, I do think that I'm not the only one seeing it (roughly) this way.

[Lestradae]

I have now heard these arguments

The whole Elite-experience relies very much on yourself, taking up the framework, expanding on the bits of the background story you know, filling the blanks, inventing a logical and plausible structure with the framework in your hand. And all of this takes place mainly in your head, not on your screen. The screen of your computer is just the canvas you have to fill with your imagination.

...

Therefore I have been consistently very critical to all sorts of graphical overkill in Oolite.

... a bit too often.

<rant>

I respectfully disagree, completely so

If someone wants to play THE original Elite, they can do so. I, for example, have on my harddrive the original C64 Elite and an emulator that will let the game run under Windows. There is total simplicity, and you can fill all the gaps you want to in your head (actually, you have no other choice but to do so )

But I understand and want Oolite to be what Elite could have been had the technology been available back then. I also don`t want it to become just another space sim, exchangeable with X3 or EVE. I also want to see the old favourites again and so on

Insisting on "keeping it simple" so that it stays the same has a little bad weird taste for me. This is like, I imagine, people sitting there playing the same game for 10 years because 20 further years back they already played it and they don`t want it to change still, but fill out 20-year-old gaps in that ever-same game in their heads ... brrr

On the other hand I agree completely that differences in taste just how far the re-enactment should go is a kind of dissent that can be solved via OXP`s. So I agree completely to

OXP, yes. Standard, no

&

Of course, nobody has to subscribe to my point of view. And at the end of the day it just may come down to me not installing a lot of fancy OXPs (which I indeed don't).

... (also considering the texture question) because this allows everyone to regulate the amount of detail etc. they want to have.

I don`t want to step on toes either, but

on the other hand, I do think that I'm not the only one seeing it (roughly) this way.

... this prompted me to say, there are more than a few dissenting opinions to the "keep it simple" view here, I think. Come to think of it, every and any add-on to Oolite is dissenting from that view in a ways

I do think that I'm also not the only one seeing it (roughly) the other way: Make it more complex, graphic, detailed, varied, cross-over, exciting, growing - while at the core, letting it stay the same game, that is expanded upon and deepend

</rant>

Cheers & keep it cool

L

[Captain Hesperus]

My Cr2 worth, which may or may not be shared by others.

I will admit that I liked the work that Sung did, it was a different take on the original set of ship textures, grittier and with more 'detail'. But, as previously mentioned, it was 'pasted on' detail, simply a replacement skin with nothing added otherwise. None the less I happily down-loaded the textures and made an OXP of like-shipped examples of 'Sung-type' Snake Class ships. But then when Sung began throwing disparaging remarks at members of the Oolite community, i.e. Giles (Oolite's creator), winston (administrator of Oosat 2, at the time when there was big problems with the upload function) and others, who out of a desire to help Sung, tried to host his textures, I began to no longer want to see the textures in-game. When Sung finally withdrew his textures and his permission for others to use them from this community, I removed the OXP from my AddOns folder and left it in my TakeOuts folder, where it has remained ever since.

I am now more in favour of seeing the Dream Team ships OXP being completed (please Selz and ramon!!) and having them as the basic ship set, since they a) have better textures b) actually have physical details as opposed to a flat skin and c) I like the authors more.

I'm know there are people out there who will think differently to me, but then let them. It's an open community and everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Captain Hesperus

[Lestradae]

It's an open community and everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Complete agreement there

Cheers

L

[pagroove]

I see good points in all previous post.

On one side I think it's good to keep the basic Oolite-package simple. Think it's also good too people to decide which oxp they like or not.

however......................

Maybe it's an idea for future releases to come up with 2 versions for example a:

Oolite Classic: 1.71 and up ..... (still an improved versions but with no oxp's)

Oolite- 'Community edition' (or something. just making up a name by now)

This collectors edition will come with a set of the best add ons that the oolite community will choose (or vote for) In this way a new person can decide if they like just a good game or a good game AND a lot of eycandy & other things.

[Kaks]

This collectors edition will come...

I'd just like to say: ????

As far as I'm concerned, the whole point of oolite is that you can add or remove any oxp.

In my view Oolite is the 'community edition' already.

I might have my favourite OXPs, but I've no intention of forcing my tastes on other people, which is what the words 'collectors edition' sound like to me.

Of course, there's nothing to stop you making an 'ultimate oxp' with all the oxps you feel everyone should have, and then relase it to the community.

Apologies if I was a bit out of order there, but I do feel very strongly about this subject.

[Roberto]

I personally don't see a need for two versions of the game, as it's not exactly difficult to find OXPs and add them to the basic set-up. But some kind of voting mechanism on the Wiki would be good - that's really what I miss about the old Oosat2. A simple list of the top 30 (say) OXPs, as voted for by everyone, would enable newcomers to easily identify the "best" OXPs, and then cherry-pick within those, depending on what takes their fancy.

Of course, I don't know how difficult it would be to set up, but "Which OXPs are the best ones?" does seem to be a common first question these days

[Cmdr James]

This is perhaps getting a little off topic.

I would like to see elite style oxp that ad ships made of a few vectors and simple colours, and a separate section for the starwars universe, startrek universe and others that dont really fit (but people might like)

[pagroove]

Kaks,

you are right in the fact that it is already a product of the community.

But I just added my thoughts about a better basic 'set'.

When I entered the Oolite community I had no troubles with finding good oxp's (thanks to the nice people on this friendly board for that) but it seems that some new peoples nowadays sometimes don't know where to start. Therefore I did come up with this (maybe not so good) idea

[Cmdr James]

Its a reasonable idea to have known, working, tested OXPs with a release. One problem is that when there is a new version of core oolite, people will expect all the OXPs to work too, and if they dont, the core dev team have to fix them.

Its also difficult to choose which OXPs to include.

I think its probably better to have a system for people to be able to easily choose, enable, and disable OXPs.

[Roberto]

*Cough* Voting system! *Cough*

[Cmdr James]

Voting would be good. I think there should also be categorisation. Not all good OXPs are good for a beginner, for example, its pretty pointless to have universe 7 only mission OXPs for a Jameson.

[Captain Hesperus]

There is always the option of adding to the Wiki pages for each mission OXP a difficulty rating (probably best if it echoes the Elite Rating) for instance:

Taranis OXP
<fluff about Taranis Corp>
</fluff about Taranis Corp>
<teaser about mission(s)>
</teaser about mission(s)>
Difficulty Rating: This Mission OXP is recommended for Commanders who are Competent and above.

Captain Hesperus

[Ace Garp]

There is always the option of adding to the Wiki pages for each mission OXP a difficulty rating (probably best if it echoes the Elite Rating) for instance:
. . .
< SNIP >
. . .
Difficulty Rating: This Mission OXP is recommended for Commanders who are Competent and above.

Captain Hesperus

Now that is a good idea.
(Also one that I've been thinking myself, so it's doubly good