Should running costs be much more expensive and frequent?

drew · Post by **drew** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 3:32 pm

Just considering this. I wonder if making money in Elite/Oolite is too easy?

Take a modern example, running a car.

Cost £20,000
Insurance per year £500
Tax per year £160-ish
Fuel per year £1000-ish
Maintenance per year £500

So running a car costs about 10% of its list price each year.

By comparision maintenance costs are 4500 Cr on hundred thousand credit ships...

I'd be interested to see if folks would like to see more cost structure in Oolite, making it possible to go 'bankrupt' if you screwed up on costs or trading... I think this side of the game is too easy.

Thus it would be possible to get 'desperate' and be forced into piracy for financial reasons.

What do you think?

Cheers,

Drew.

Micaelis · Post by **Micaelis** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:39 pm

This is a good idea, Drew.

When I read your post, I recall an old MSX game called "Payload".

In that game, you're a truck driver, delivering cargo.

If you put too much damage in your truck, don't deliver the cargo in the
contracted time ( Even if you deliver the cargo, you must pay the fine, for being late ) or spent too much money in an upgrade, you'll end your game, going into bankrupcy!:shock:

I think something like that in Oolite will give some more strategy thinking in the game. It'll make you wonder if that cargo run is "profitable" or not ...

Cheers,

lex_talionis · Post by **lex_talionis** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:59 pm

i like this idea. it seems to me that after every 5 or so jumps/battles/cargo runs there's gonna be *something* that needs tweaking. so it should all add up to more running costs. but then... you don't want it *too* high, since up-and-coming pilots wouldn't be able to afford it... fine balance, methinks.

Roberto · Post by **Roberto** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:52 pm

I guess maintenance costs could be a little higher (or the bills could appear more frequently), but I'm not that fussed to be honest. Sure, running a spaceship is cheap compared to running a car, but that "easy money" comes with a constant risk of being lasered into oblivion!

Having said that, I wouldn't object to the addition of crew-member wages on the bigger ships, à la Frontier. Nor to higher fuel costs.

Another way of adding a bit of "desperation" to the gameplay would be to give players the option to start off with nothing and have to take out a (crippling) loan to afford a ship (something crap and/or rusty - the ships that don't make any sense to fly at the moment). Could have a nice tie-in mission where, if you fail to meet a repayment, your (dodgy) creditor offers not to break your legs in exchange for making dodgy shipments/performing hits...

lex_talionis · Post by **lex_talionis** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:57 pm

Roberto wrote:
...you fail to meet a repayment, your (dodgy) creditor offers not to break your legs in exchange for making dodgy shipments/performing hits...

you got experience of this?

Roberto · Post by **Roberto** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:10 pm

Fortunately, no - just an unhealthy imagination

Rhakka · Post by **Rhakka** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:19 pm

Well, as a newbie, let me just say the beginning of this game is pretty hard as it is!

I'm not sure I'd tie to the price of a ship, but the basic idea of maintenance seems good. Ships that were notoriously hard to maintain would probably be pretty cheap compared to the "high end" "attention to detail" ships. But, might be otherwise decent ships. Maybe maintenance costs could be figured into the ship cost so yeah, if you were "desperate" you could buy some junker but then you need to make that monthly engine overhaul payment!

I would say I don't know about going bankrupt, but you could choose to skip the overhauls. And watch the ship start to lose performance... trade in value... maybe even have things randomly start breaking... heck, maybe your witchspace system blows up on your next jump.

you're still in the game, but it's going baaadly. Maybe badly enough to make you decide to trade back down to a smaller but better built ship. Unless you can't even do that, then eventually I suppose you'd be broke with a broken ship that can't fly anymore..

This would even add something that could result in "fixer upper" deals in the shipyards maybe?

Heck.. maybe not even determine this by class of ship. Maybe that cobra mkIII you've got is from that run of ships they made with faulty engine mounts. You know, the ones that were recalled. Oh, you didn't get the message? Sorry, time limit expired last year.

CWolf · Post by **CWolf** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:20 pm

Maybe more realistic but not more frequent... OR - be available at every stop as opposed to when the ship depreciates to a certain level.

Rhakka · Post by **Rhakka** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:20 pm

CWolf wrote:
Maybe more realistic but not more frequent... OR - be available at every stop as opposed to when the ship depreciates to a certain level.

Most definitely maintenance should always be an option!

lex_talionis · Post by **lex_talionis** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:51 pm

i seem to recall Giles mentioning that if you skip the maintenance - as you said Rhakka - then your ship does start to go belly-up, with things going wrong all the time etc. mis-jumps become frequent etc.

Rhakka · Post by **Rhakka** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:56 pm

No kidding? That's cool. I thought it was just to reclaim some trade in value!

lex_talionis · Post by **lex_talionis** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:01 pm

no, as i recall, maintenance has a real in-game benefit, makes your life safer!

Post by **winston** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:52 am

Moving from the car example to the aircraft example - an "inexpensive" (they aren't really) light plane might cost you around 20,000 to buy - but the annual costs heap up to about £3000 even if you never fly the thing! (Maintenance costs barely change with usage)

CWolf · Post by **CWolf** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:11 pm

Yeah, fuel leaks are a pain.

Your ECM stopping working mid fight is a swine too - especially when the injectors are also dead and there is a nasty pointy thing heading right for you.

Wolfwood · Post by **Wolfwood** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:46 am

I think one of the easiest ways to introduce some higher running costs for ships would be to add crew requirements for them. Small ships only need the pilot, of course, who never really sleeps(!), but the larger ships should require more and more crew.

Of course, alongside with the higher costs, it would be nice to get something back from that crew in return, but that could wait until later...